PSU's lack innovation - Here's some thoughts on the ideal PSU...

[virtualrain]

PSU's are probably the most boring but important component in any PC system.

PC enthusiasts (including me) have demonstrated an enormous potential to pay for innovative, good quality products that not only perform, but also allow for superior levels of tweaking, control, and customization.

Yet, the PSU market offers nothing that would really appeal to enthusiasts beyond products with rediculous amounts of power and modular cables. Sad.

Why can't someone innovate on the PSU? Here are some considerations for making a wicked enthusiast oriented PSU...

- USB control and monitoring: Why not allow the user to monitor current loads and voltages on rails as well as DC and AC power consumption in real time via PC software via USB?

- Modular cooling: Why not build a PSU with a large heatsink on top that can then have any after market fan of 120mm or 140mm clipped onto the heat sink? Why not allow a copper water block option to be bolted to the end of the heat sink instead of using a fan?

- Variable 5V-24V rail: Why not include one rail that the buyer can customize the voltage on to either run some fans at 7V or a pump at 18V?

- A power bus distribution cable: Why not offer a power bus cable which would include some large gauge conductors in either a rigid bar or even a sleeved cable that had many connection points along it so that short stubby cables could be run from various components to the bus cable? Why not offer a power hub that connects to the main PSU by a single heavy gauge connection but has numerous connectors on it to allow for components to be individually connected to the hub with short cables and not force running long narrow gauge cables back to the PSU from each device?

- Modular power: Why not offer the PSU's in 500W-700W blocks that can be combined together with a simple control cable that allows remote starting of multiple PSU's without modifying the ATX cable?

- Customizable: Why not allow the covers or heat-sinks to be removed an painted or plated without voiding the warranty? Or at least offer a variety of finishes on the PSU.

Surely this would all cost more, but I've spent so much time and money on custom cables and crap to make my build look elegant that I would gladly have paid for these options if they were available in an off the shelf product.

Anyone agree?

[mpilchfamily]

Well i believe there is a project being developed that would integrate full system monitoring including PSU loads and whatnot. But adding the ability to monitor current loads and voltages is a good option but would be largely inaccurate. You can already use software to monitor voltage readings but they are never right. They read from a chip on the motherboard that is monitoring voltages at the 24pin main connector. But since the chip is placed on the opposite side of the motherboard and the traces on the board are so small the readings are not correct. But to add some sort of amp meter that reports to the system threw USB would add about $20 for each rail that is monitored. There would need to be a shunt placed on each rail for the meter to read from. Unless there is a better way of measuring the amperage.

Unfortunately PSUs and dealing with power is beyond the ability of most people. You start giving people control with a variable voltage rail and they are libel to destroy their hardware. I do like the power bus idea but that would be something to integrate into the case that the PSU can jack into. This would be most helpful in reducing the clutter of cables. I might just have to start on a prototype for something that can be added to cases.

As for modding anything you void warranties with any kind of mod you perform. If it involves cracking open the case and cutting things then warranties tend to die. It can be dangerous messing around inside of a PSU. So while a cover change or cooling change out would be nice there will always be some idiot that gets hurt from it a sues the manufacture for allowing such a practice by leaving warranties in tact. it all comes down to companies not wanting to be sued. I like your ideas and it would be nice to see but there are too many idiots in this world that would end up urting themselfs trying to use these features.

Now on a side note i hope to start performing and offering custom mods for PSUs. I'm in the middle of another project right now trying to build my own PSU load tester. But after that is done and i get a few PSU reviews done I'll be starting up my custom mod business.

[jonnyGURU]

Originally Posted by virtualrain

- USB control and monitoring

This is done by a few folks actually, most notable would be Gigabyte with their Odin GT. Nvidia's ESA also supports this.

Originally Posted by virtualrain

- Modular cooling: Why not build a PSU with a large heatsink on top that can then have any after market fan of 120mm or 140mm clipped onto the heat sink? Why not allow a copper water block option to be bolted to the end of the heat sink instead of using a fan?

Because you're putting too much of a PSU's life expectancy in the hands of the user. Some mishaps could be down right lethal. As for water cooling; one of the tricks is keeping the primary and secondary sides isolated from each other. A big 'ol water block will ground those two together.

Originally Posted by virtualrain

- Variable 5V-24V rail: Why not include one rail that the buyer can customize the voltage on to either run some fans at 7V or a pump at 18V?

5V to 24V is too wide of an adjustable range for anything over a couple amps. It's hard enough to do with a mere fan controller and a +/- 10% adjustment, never mind an actual power supply. Also, there's liability again.

Originally Posted by virtualrain

- A power bus distribution cable: Why not offer a power bus cable which would include some large gauge conductors in either a rigid bar or even a sleeved cable that had many connection points along it so that short stubby cables could be run from various components to the bus cable? Why not offer a power hub that connects to the main PSU by a single heavy gauge connection but has numerous connectors on it to allow for components to be individually connected to the hub with short cables and not force running long narrow gauge cables back to the PSU from each device?

Marketability? Thermaltake did this originally, and I thought it was a good idea, with a 3.5" power distribution bay. But it never caught on. Ultra has their "Power Bar", or whatever they're calling it, and they include it in some cases. But it's hard to sell aftermarket because you need a second set of shorter cables to go from the Power Bar to the peripherals.

Originally Posted by virtualrain

- Modular power: Why not offer the PSU's in 500W-700W blocks that can be combined together with a simple control cable that allows remote starting of multiple PSU's without modifying the ATX cable?

We played with this idea at Ultra a little but it kept falling short because people could just buy a larger PSU. We then opted for just an ATX splitter cable that could be used with any two power supplies.

I believe Antec now has some sort of linking system on a PSU, or at least they're working on it.

Originally Posted by virtualrain

- Customizable: Why not allow the covers or heat-sinks to be removed an painted or plated without voiding the warranty? Or at least offer a variety of finishes on the PSU.

Surely this would all cost more, but I've spent so much time and money on custom cables and crap to make my build look elegant that I would gladly have paid for these options if they were available in an off the shelf product.

Ultra did this originally, but most people wanted either black or silver. You have to be able to sell what you buy and to make something that you can actually make money at selling, you have to commit to building a few thousand units.

As far as the DIY idea goes: Again; liability.

[virtualrain]

Originally Posted by mpilchfamily

I do like the power bus idea but that would be something to integrate into the case that the PSU can jack into. This would be most helpful in reducing the clutter of cables.

You are right... the best solution to power distribution in a case is to build that into the case itself. More case manufacturers should consider this idea.

[virtualrain]

Johnny, as a Product Manager myself, I appreciate the complexities, costs, and mass marketability of such niche products, but everyone is looking for or needs a differentiator these days, especially in such a crowded and mundane space as the PSU market. These are some ways to add differentiation beyond just more AMPS or less ripple. I want a PSU which does it's job well but also makes my life as hobby system builder easier.

As you point out, many of these things have been implemented before. Unfortunately never executed particularly well or in combination to make a dream PSU for a custom system builder.

On cooling you said...

Originally Posted by jonnyGURU

Because you're putting too much of a PSU's life expectancy in the hands of the user. Some mishaps could be down right lethal. As for water cooling; one of the tricks is keeping the primary and secondary sides isolated from each other. A big 'ol water block will ground those two together.

I have to disagree... Aftermarket cooling is accepted and supported on nearly every PC component now except for the PSU. Would people be happy if their CPU came with an HSF that could not be changed without voiding the warranty? No F'n way! Yet we are supposed to accept whatever cooling solution the PSU manufacturer includes without question? Doesn't make any sense to me. Nearly any PSU could be cut down in size by 25mm and topped with a suitable heat sink to allow any user supplied fan to be used just like the myriad of CPU coolers on the market. And there's no reason you couldn't tap a couple of holes in the end of the 12V rail heat sink to allow someone to mount a mosfet cooling block to the end if they wanted to water cool it. I'm sure PSU's have thermal protection anyway, and if they didn't you could design it such that it provided limited output if you wanted to run it passive.

BTW, Since I'm just pipe dreaming... Can we kill the damn Molex connector? That thing is so oversized it's rediculous yet every light, pump, and other PC accessory (even my PhysX card) requires this god forsaken remanant from the 70s.

[jonnyGURU]

Originally Posted by virtualrain

I have to disagree... Aftermarket cooling is accepted and supported on nearly every PC component now except for the PSU. Would people be happy if their CPU came with an HSF that could not be changed without voiding the warranty? No F'n way! Yet we are supposed to accept whatever cooling solution the PSU manufacturer includes without question?

If you have a CPU with inadequate cooling, it locks up and, due to thermal protection, eventually shuts down. A PSU does have thermal protection, but it doesn't "lock up" or anything of that sort up until the point of "too hot.. oh shit.... something's gonna blow." Essentially, you'd just drastically reduce the output capability of the PSU and shorten the lifespan. Not many PSU companies are going to want to risk that. If the PSU could tolerate it, the PSU manufacturers would already put the quietest, most efficient fans on the units. And if the user is that much of an enthusiast, they'd void their warranty by replacing the fan themselves OR buy an open frame unit and custom make their own housing and cooling solutions.

Originally Posted by virtualrain

Doesn't make any sense to me. Nearly any PSU could be cut down in size by 25mm and topped with a suitable heat sink to allow any user supplied fan to be used just like the myriad of CPU coolers on the market. And there's no reason you couldn't tap a couple of holes in the end of the 12V rail heat sink to allow someone to mount a mosfet cooling block to the end if they wanted to water cool it. I'm sure PSU's have thermal protection anyway, and if they didn't you could design it such that it provided limited output if you wanted to run it passive.

Not really. You could program an IC that could lower the OTP if the unit knew that additional cooling was not available, but when you leave it to the user you determine the cooler, how does the PSU really know the limits of the cooler the user is using?

It's like a CPU where as it runs faster, it runs hotter, so to get it to run cooler you slow it down. Thus the premise behind technology like "Cool n' Quiet." With a PSU, if it ran hotter you really couldn't get it to "slow down." There's a demand on that PSU that's causing it to need to put out X amount of power and therefore generate Y amount of heat. You can't reduce the power being delivered because it is essentially power on demand. Therefore all you could do is tell the PSU to shut down, and that's the OTP in place in PSU's today.

[virtualrain]

I understand... as the saying goes... "If there's a will there's a way" or more aptly "If there's a market, there's a product"... I guess I just belong to a such a niche market, it's not worth anyone's R&D.

[MrWicked1968]

because of the role they have in a computer system, PSU's should be fairly boring. Imagine a 12 year old kid, smart but with no exceptional talents and no background in electrical engineering, given control of such a PSU. Like Jonny said, the potential liability issues are enormous and there's no way even a niche product could be marketed with a "user assumes all risks" liability warning.

on a lighter note, the implications for the Darwin Awards are intriguing.

[signmeuptoo]

No offense, but a number of the features you listed don't seem like they would really be worth it or even make sense. Just my opinion.

With that said, I do have some ideas, some innovations involving power that I think would be universally popular. It's the human factor here, how many people are really likely to want/need/be better off with a given feature or design.

For instance, a snazzy feature might be a supply with a DMM built in, or an interface cable and 5.25" bay DMM device that can also control fans.

Or a supply that has a rail for dedicated fan and a dedicated rail for lights, and an included/modular cabled front bay device for fan control that is integrated with the supply.

Or supply cables that are springy/coily so that they "retract" neatly.

Or power supply cables with electro luminescent wires on them for show.

And here's an idea for Johnny if he ever does try and make a computer case with BFG (if he uses the idea, a free supply would be a sweet gift, heh heh...):

You know how Ultra and that other company have that power bar so that cabling in your case is more neat? Well, a better idea: Take the idea from track lighting: A track bus bar with buses for all 3 voltages and chassis common/ground. And then there would be accompanying track bus molex type connectors/cables that plug into it. They would come in a kit so a guy could make the length of cable as he/she needed it.

With such a track system you could power wire and entire case so neatly and with such short cables it would look badass, neat, and provide good power. The buses could be ordered separately as well as the cable/connector kits so that anyone who wants to mod could do this. Cables would be color coordinated and/or sleeved with unique and pretty sleeving.

[dhanson865]

Hey, I'm not asking for liability waivers. I just wish when I open open up my PSU there wasn't a glob of glue holding the fan tail down so well that I'd have to cut the wires and risk damaging the PSU PCB to get the socket free from the glue. In a perfect world the fan tail would go into a standard 3 pin connector so I could swap the fan without prying the plastic shroud off the pins.

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article83-page1.html shows the technique I want to use but when there is a glob of glue holding a cap in place that just so happens to be covering most of the plastic/nylon piece in place it makes it so much more difficult to do.