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PC Power Supply Discussion Troubleshooting and discussion of computer power supplies

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Old 04-20-2007
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Default Supplies, Rated at 40c/50c, and HOT rooms!?

This is a very important question and applies to a lot of folks so I know this thread may benefit more people than me.

Let me start off by saying that 15 years ago I went to a really good technician's college, one of the best in the world, but a major head trauma and a decade of disability later, my electronics skills are not M@d $k!lls any longer, if you will, heh. But it was a great school and if I took refresher classes I bet I'd pick it back up, head trauma isn't always a death durge...

Well, thing is, after a bit of reading, talking to a friend who is a full EE with many years of trade experience (though not in the supply field), and my having a modest understanding still of electronics, I am very very very concerned about the rating of supplies based on ambient temperature rated conditions. You all here know that some supplies are rated to provide a certain load capacity and stability and dependability at, say, 40 degrees C, yet others go a farther step and are tested at a more grueling 50 d C. Thing is, I have had my heart set on getting a PC Power and Cooling Silencer 750 Quad and I am scraping slowly, the money, up to buy one (hey, I am like, well, uber poor, if you will). That supply is very highly rated for my motherboard and configuration and many people swear by the brand saying that they have some of the best designed supplies and are made with good parts by good sub contractors (Seasonic in this case).

But the thing is, am I to understand that this supply I am in love with is also ONLY RATED AT 40 degrees C for its' performance, stability, and load capacity? This scares me a lot. Why? Well, remember how I said I was !eet poor, well, I live in the South USA where it gets humid AND VERY hot and we have NO AC and my room is in the sun, the hottest room in the house. I am not certain, but I am pretty sure my room has exceeded 100 degrees on a 88 degree day, so on days it reaches 100 degrees here (about the max it gets from what I understand, being new here) AND somewhat humid (though not as bad as, say, Houston, TX) and the fact that I have NO AC and can't afford an AC unit , let alone to pay for the electric bill, well, I am scared to death that I will buy this expensive supply, it will become my one greatest pride and joy, and then the heat will come hard this summer and the supply will blow! 40 d C is, what, 104 degrees. My room may get more hot than that, AND inside the supply even hotter! Now, 50 degrees C is much higher, it is 122, and that would be at the cusp of likely temperatures...

Sadly, there is no way in Hades and Heaven that I can see myself saving up for the higher quality, 50 degree rated 1000 Watt Unit PCP&C offers!

Am I better off getting a different brand supply that offers a rating at the superior 50 C, or is PCP&C just being conservative? Can I run the Silencer 750 at, say, a load like a 650 watt rig, and be safe? I don't know enough about this temperature issue and how it can affect me, and I am torn between thoughts of great worry and disbelief that I have been fed a healthy dose of FUD with a poor man's wooden spoon...

Please Please Please respond to this thread with all the input you can possibly offer. And if you like, suggest a supply for me, here is what my rig is and what it will be eventually, I hope:

DFI LP UT nF4 SLI DR
Toledo 4800 overclocked (will buy an FX-60 or opty 185 used one day maybe)
Team Xtreem Cronus M 5B-f 2 x 1 GB (Plan on adding heat sinks to these, ON TOP of the heat spreaders)
right now: eVGA 7900 GT CO x 1; want a pair of 800s or better in SLI eventually, will buy used when the time comes
thermalright XP-120, lapped with liquid metal and Panaflo fan
Soundblaster Audigy 2 ZS Platty
Optical drive, but want a new one and a combo HD/Blu Ray too at some point
2 x PATA drive, but want to be able to run 7 HD, 6 in RAID, and one Or even 2) huge one for pure storage.
A half dozen large fans or more
Lighting.

(I may be getting rehabilitated and going back to work in the coming year, and still won't be rich, but I will want to upgrade, but buy a lot used).

So I want a supply with an impeccable reputation, is rated for severe heat, is powerful enough, has the right connectors, is covered by a company that treats people well when warranty issues occur (not Antec, FWIW), is moderately quiet (I will sacrifce noise for the sake of the other things as needed), and is ultra stable and gives very clean power for overclocking etcetera...

What's a dude to do?

Last edited by signmeuptoo; 04-20-2007 at 11:41 AM.
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Old 04-20-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by signmeuptoo View Post
But the thing is, am I to understand that this supply I am in love with is also ONLY RATED AT 40 degrees C for its' performance, stability, and load capacity?
The "750W" rating it's given was when the factory performed testing at 40C.

The actual operating temperature is probably upwards of 50C. It can probably easily put out at least 700W at 50C.

FYI: You might want to change your thread's subject to something relevant so people will be inclined to read it. Just a suggestion.
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Old 04-20-2007
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Thanks oh great and wise one! I am feeling a little better now, then. I hate that I can't have AC, the house would need new wiring/rewiring and I don't have a license (used to do electrical work though for a Master) and I don't feel very comfortable in my dealings with the house owner, he is squirly, if you will, about taking care of the house.

Here is another thing though, related to this question: This PCP&C only has an 80mm fan! Sure, I read where they over there say that the bigger fans take up more space which reduces HS space. Maybe I should buy a 120 or 140mm fan and zip tie it to the supply bottom inside the case to augment the fan flow if I buy the supply?

Another thing that bothers me: These PCP&C supplies, from what I can tell, they don't provide fan speed/status sending header lines/connectors for the motherboard's power supply fan header sensor setup. For expensive supplies, why in Heaven's name do they omit such a thing??? Do these supplies shut down if they get hot enough?
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Old 04-20-2007
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I have found a number of units that function at full rated load at 45c even if they aren't rated as such.
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Old 04-20-2007
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Here's a thought... make sure the case has plenty of airflow so the power supply doesn't have to digest as much heat. A full speed intake and exhaust. Hell... two intakes and one exhaust. Whatever. Just let the PSU only worry about exhausting it's own heat and not the heat of the whole PC and you'll be fine.
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HEH, but of course, mon frair (or however the Franks say it)... I have a super crappy case so I don't even have the side cover on and the windows fan gets some air on it, just a little.

In about 3 months I hope to have that case. Trust me, it will be the right kind of case, BIG front fans, BIG rear fans, BIG side fans, heck, a top fan, AND a divider to protect the supply from the CPU HS/F's venturi effect, to boot...

I already have two cases picked out, one for now, one for next year:

http://www.aerocool.us/p-case/aeroen...eroengine2.htm

And later on, a CM Stacker.

The aerocool looks a little kiddy like, but it does have practical qualities to it, and the system will go to my son overseas on a tropical island within a year I am hoping...
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Old 04-20-2007
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I always like to keep my case set with a bit more intake than exhaust air flow just so that my PSU gets plenty of fresh air flowing into it. This school of thought must work as I've got a nearly four year old Antec True Blue 480W that I ran 24/7 for three years and not a single cap has bulged in it and my Sister has my old True Power 430 that's close to six years old and it hasn't skipped a beat either.
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Yeah, I have read that as well. One of the things I studied at Photonics college was indeed Vacuums/Gas/Flow Physics because lab techs, especially research techs, work with LOTS of ultra high vacuum equipment and the theory is a bit of a bite to learn. Anyways, to say that a case with more exhaust than intake power wise has a "vacuum" is a moderate misnomer. Sure, a Vacuum is simply a relative term, NOT an absolute term as NOWHERE in the Universe as we know it as of yet is there such a thing, but that said, the difference in the inside of a leaky metal case as opposed to outside of it is miniscule even with a large imbalance of fans per intake vs. outtake. That said, there IS resistance to flow, and THAT *IS* the point. Ineed, you want slightly more volumetric flow capability for intake than outtake, but JUST slightly, otherwise you are merely spinning your wheels because conventional computer case fans aren't good at overcoming resistance to flow like, say, a laboratory roots blower pump is... But who in Hades would WANT a Root's blower for a case, it would be hell on your ears!

Now that said, not only do you want a little extra strength for intake, but you want to avoid venturi effects around HS/Fs, too! Ideally, a circular flow around a case from bottom front to bottom rear to top rear to out of the case would be quite ideal. And don't let anyone tell you that "turbulence" reduces cooling, because that IS preposterous! The very definition in physics of what turbulence is, and what turbulent flow is (as opposed to probabilities flow, for instance) supports the very basis of what DOES make fans effective for cooling computer stuff! It just has to be the right turbulence, an inefficient turbulence is what is bad...

Ah, well, now back to supplies...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by signmeuptoo View Post
The very definition in physics of what turbulence is, and what turbulent flow is (as opposed to probabilities flow, for instance) supports the very basis of what DOES make fans effective for cooling computer stuff! It just has to be the right turbulence, an inefficient turbulence is what is bad...

Ah, well, now back to supplies...
Don't you mean laminar flow?
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Just try whatever works best for you in terms of cooling. I use one large intake, one side and 2 large exits and it works fine for me. Some PSU's will heat-up above norm anyway due to the ambient temp rise in summer, and IF put under heavy loads will be topping 50C exhaust.

I saw the X3 1kW lately top out at 45 intake/70C exhaust in the "hot box" 971W load test Matt did for here. Although you won't be reaching that load, the intake temperature is easily reached. 48C around 120F is standard summer shade temps for Asia, Africa and M.E. And as a side, in direct sun heat, you're talking 134F as pretty common.
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