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PC Power Supply Discussion Troubleshooting and discussion of computer power supplies

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  #11  
Old 02-19-2018
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As long as you're not overclocking at default voltages, those should do ok.
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  #12  
Old 02-20-2018
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Originally Posted by ashiekh View Post
They need to be derated for high temperature input; i.e. cannot run at full load.

http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3987

"How does the temperature inside of my case affect the performance of my power supply?

Power supplies can perform differently depending on the temperature at which they are operating at. When a power supply is rated for it's total output wattage, it is rated to do so at a particular temperature. Anything beyond this temperature may take away from the power supply's capability. A power supply that is rated to put out 550W at 25C or 30C (room temperature) may only be able to put out 75% of that at 40C or 50C (actual operating temperature). This difference is called the "de-rating curve". A normal operating temperature for a power supply is 40C.

jonnyGURU, Mar 19, 2008"
I know it's Jonnyguru's own writing but I think it's worded in a way that would cause confusion. The key word is "capability" here, because I don't think we are exactly talking about wattage, per se, but rather electrical performance or various phenomena. It's not that the power supply in question won't "put out" 550W at 40C, it just may have bad electrical performance at that point.

Now, if it's bad enough to the point to where UVP comes in, well, then it had to be a pretty horrible PSU in the first place TBH. And a PSU with OTP should never have such an issue, let alone any well-made PSU.

Also relevant: http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13311

I posed the above question 2 years ago and still revisit the thread every so often because it's highly relevant. I think it's important that when we talk about stuff we know what we're talking about, because in my mind the idea that "power can only reach 75% of its rated output under higher temperatures because of derating" has some funny business going on because what would happen if you try to take it to 76%? Explode? Kill PC? Shut off from a protection?

The concept of derating is one that needs to be looked at when it comes to a power supply individually, because one with a well-tuned set of protections really should have little to no problem from derating. Maybe performance would decrease, but if electrical performance decreases we shouldn't say "less power" we should say "worse performance".

Last edited by jonnyGURU; 02-20-2018 at 02:04 AM.
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  #13  
Old 02-20-2018
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One can take an engine and run it full out in a very hot climate, and it will reach its full power... till it overheats; better to have a thermal shut-down. The engine is capable of full output and performance at all ambient temperatures, but only for short periods at high ambient temperatures (the person here was getting 10 mins)

Even a human being has thermal de-rating; hard labor in mid Summer is best done more slowely.

So you are right, the wording should be "cannot run continuously at full load"; power can reach 100%, but only for a limited time.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg thermal.jpg (9.8 KB, 8 views)

Last edited by ashiekh; 02-20-2018 at 03:03 PM.
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  #14  
Old 02-20-2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashiekh View Post
So you are right, the wording should be "cannot run continuously at full load"; power can reach 100%, but only for a limited time.
I do not think this is true for every power supply. A lot of them are underrated from the get go. That Prime Titanium 650W that did 900W continuous on Tom's I bet could do 650W continuous at 55C intake even though it is rated for 50C.
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  #15  
Old 02-20-2018
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Perhaps so, but this is a thread about a particular supply shutting down after 10 mins

A 3.1 GHz CPU could probably be overclocked to run at 3.4 GHz, but who wants to work without a safety margin? I don't want my computer crashing on a hot day when I am in the middle of some important work. Electronics ages, but it is new equipment that is reviewed; this is especially true of power supplies with electrolytic capacitors. Running a 650W supply at 900W is a time bomb waiting to go off.

Last edited by ashiekh; 02-20-2018 at 06:13 PM.
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  #16  
Old 02-21-2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashiekh View Post
One can take an engine and run it full out in a very hot climate, and it will reach its full power... till it overheats; better to have a thermal shut-down. The engine is capable of full output and performance at all ambient temperatures, but only for short periods at high ambient temperatures (the person here was getting 10 mins)

Even a human being has thermal de-rating; hard labor in mid Summer is best done more slowely.

So you are right, the wording should be "cannot run continuously at full load"; power can reach 100%, but only for a limited time.
my shutdowns were at room temp. on open case. In 10 minutes if it overheats than that could be just the fan issue. Next time ill do test i will pay attention to temps and what fan is doing - maybe auto control of fan just does not work?
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  #17  
Old 03-01-2018
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So iv'e got update on this. Not like problem solved but... So we added second PSU 600W FSP for 2 cards and still got same problem, which means that this issue I was talking about was not so simple and probably is not to related to load on PSU. When we moved rig to place where ambient temperature is like 10C (50F) then rig started to work flawlessly. Today week passed and still no reboots. Tho summer is coming and I still need to find issue.
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  #18  
Old 03-01-2018
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Good to know it is now pinned down to a temperature issue

What you are not telling us is how much load those 2 cards are putting on the 600W supply or the original temperature of the room.

Putting the rig in a cold room has the disadvantage that the heat is not being used to reduce the heating bill

Interesting article
https://www.newscientist.com/article...-of-resources/

Last edited by ashiekh; 03-01-2018 at 03:39 PM.
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  #19  
Old 03-04-2018
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About wasting energy - I agree. And I am not proud to be a GPU miner also. It is waste of energy, tho I can earn some money on that and as overclocker and gamer I love tweaking rigs.

But to the point.
I moved back my rig to warm place and realize that problem is still there, rig shuts down after few minutes or so. I mentioned before that secondary PSU did not solve issue, but what i did not knew that mistake was made there because I did not made those changes by my self. The problema was that all risers took power from SATA cables from Corsair unit. So now I did connect 4 risers to PCIE power cables using PCIE splitters and left other 4 risers on SATA - each riser on its own cable. And now rig is working on full load 1200w from wall for an hour (before it shut down after 10m or so).
So - I think 12v rail on SATA was overloaded? But there is that switch on my Corsair PSU SINGLE/MULTIPLE. Now it is set to MULTIPLE. Wouldn't it be so that problem could be solved just by putting PSU on SINGLE rail mode? I am not a fan of using ton of low quality spliters in rig.
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  #20  
Old 03-04-2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deff_ins View Post
About wasting energy - I agree. And I am not proud to be a GPU miner also. It is waste of energy...
I too would find it hard


Quote:
Originally Posted by deff_ins View Post
Now it is set to MULTIPLE. Wouldn't it be so that problem could be solved just by putting PSU on SINGLE rail mode?
Why not try

Last edited by ashiekh; 03-05-2018 at 11:04 AM.
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