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  #11  
Old 07-26-2017
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Depends on the series, some can even be mediocre or bad, like Nippon Chemicon KZG.
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  #12  
Old 07-29-2017
Stefan Payne Stefan Payne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dracarus88 View Post
sorry...if this sounds like a noob question, but are jap capacitors really better? than say like...caps made in taiwan? or ones made in 'merica?
and if so, better in what capacity? (See what i did there?? lol)
No, not always, you have to look at the spec sheet, compare the data you see there.
Every decent capacitor manufacturers has dozens or even hundreds of different series. And out of those series you have to find the one you want.
And that's what I mean.
The brand name of the capacitor is rather irrelevant, the series (and the specs) are more important than the manufacturer...


And as a rule of the thumb:
If something is made in China so is usually every other component of that device, due to high import tax in china.
So those 'Japanese' caps are NOT made in Japan, they are made in China - like everything else is. If you are mean you can call them Wapanese (Wannabe Japanese) or maybe even Chapanese (Chinese Japanese) caps...

And the problem is that someone might use worse japanese components instead.
Like Nippon Chemicon KMA on the modular PCB of some Super Flower made PSUs.
Those things (16V/100F) are specified for just 95mA Ripplecurrent and 1000h Lifetime...


Super Flower uses something like CapXon SY instead wich seems to be a bit better. They at least mention the Impedance (Nippon Chemicon does not for the KMA) and Ripple is about double of the KMA as is lifetime...

Why do they do that? Because People bash everything not from japanese companys, even though all caps in china made PSUs usually are manufactured in China...

Buttom Line:
Series/Specs Matters, Not Brandname on it.
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  #13  
Old 08-16-2017
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefan Payne View Post
No, not always, you have to look at the spec sheet, compare the data you see there.
Every decent capacitor manufacturers has dozens or even hundreds of different series. And out of those series you have to find the one you want.
And that's what I mean.
The brand name of the capacitor is rather irrelevant, the series (and the specs) are more important than the manufacturer...


And as a rule of the thumb:
If something is made in China so is usually every other component of that device, due to high import tax in china.
So those 'Japanese' caps are NOT made in Japan, they are made in China - like everything else is. If you are mean you can call them Wapanese (Wannabe Japanese) or maybe even Chapanese (Chinese Japanese) caps...

And the problem is that someone might use worse japanese components instead.
Like Nippon Chemicon KMA on the modular PCB of some Super Flower made PSUs.
Those things (16V/100F) are specified for just 95mA Ripplecurrent and 1000h Lifetime...


Super Flower uses something like CapXon SY instead wich seems to be a bit better. They at least mention the Impedance (Nippon Chemicon does not for the KMA) and Ripple is about double of the KMA as is lifetime...

Why do they do that? Because People bash everything not from japanese companys, even though all caps in china made PSUs usually are manufactured in China...

Buttom Line:
Series/Specs Matters, Not Brandname on it.
Thanks for saying that , TBH I wouldn't call them wapanese caps idk why people call them that. as far as I know for example chemicon caps are made in the usa, UCC caps made in japan , usa, and the components are made in the state of Washington. There's also chemicon, Indonesia, Malaysia,etc. But the electrolytes come from Japan.

Still I like teapo caps, especially polymers, samxon caps are good too ,I've seen them in primaries often. Taicon is under nichicon supervision I believe. Capxon only if polymers, it doesn't really matter where it is made either it's the quality of the conpenents used that matter, and longevity.i have a soft spot for panny caps though.

Hell I had a computer "expert" tell me that if I see Chinese caps in psu's don't buy them
*Facepalm*
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  #14  
Old 08-18-2017
Stefan Payne Stefan Payne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyrix View Post
Thanks for saying that , TBH I wouldn't call them wapanese caps idk why people call them that.
Because they are not made in japan but in china. To make it clear to people, wo just believe and not know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyrix View Post
as far as I know for example chemicon caps are made in the usa, UCC caps made in japan , usa, and the components are made in the state of Washington. There's also chemicon, Indonesia, Malaysia,etc. But the electrolytes come from Japan.
Yes, but you have to differentiate between the retail components wich can be manufactured in the US as well and the components used in 'Chinaware'.

The capacitors in our ATX Powersupplys that are made in china, are likely to be made in China. JonnyGURU mentioned that a couple of times...

And there is also the Issue of the 'W Series' from Nippon Chemicon. They don't have a spec sheet for that series but you find those in many modern PSU that use 'japanese capacitors'...
Like Seasonic X/P Series, Prime and so on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyrix View Post
Still I like teapo caps, especially polymers, samxon caps are good too ,I've seen them in primaries often. Taicon is under nichicon supervision I believe. Capxon only if polymers, it doesn't really matter where it is made either it's the quality of the conpenents used that matter, and longevity.i have a soft spot for panny caps though.
Yes and there we are talking about price.
And that's what a TDK Lambda Engineer also confirmed. It depends on the price.

The others also can make good capacitors - but at the same price as everyone else does....

And that's what I mean! People blame companys for things that are related to the price of th component...


So you can say for sure:
You get what you paid for!!
For Capacitors you pay mostly for reliability and longelivety.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyrix View Post
Hell I had a computer "expert" tell me that if I see Chinese caps in psu's don't buy them
*Facepalm*
And people like him are the problem...
They see something somewhere and don't think about it and just tell some lies like that.

Japanese capacitors are also bad. I can prove it. Just look for "iMac G5 capacitor"...
You wil find pictures of whole batteries of japanese capacitors from different series and different manufacturers that are all either bad or going bad...
That proves that japanese capacitors are also bad!


No it doesn't...
Because with that the condition of operation is left out. And that's rather important. If you design a product well, it will last long, even with the shittiest capacitors you can find. (well as long as they don't age chemically)...

As for Capacitors in modern PSUs:
Modern PSU are so darn cold that I don't believe that we will have the same problems we had in the early 80plus days or before. In those Days a 500W PSU had the same wasted power as modern 1200 or even 1500W units.

PSU reaching 85% efficiency is the minimum these days (and AFAIR also required by law in some areas of the world. In theory at least).
But in the olden days we are talking about something like 72% efficiency at best. And something around 60% normal...

So with a 450W PSU with 70% efficiency we are talking about ~200W wasted energy inside.
With a modern 750W PSU and 90% efficiency we are talking about 83W wasted energy inside. (at 85% it would be 130W) and at 95% it would be 40W...
At 100% load of course

With the higher efficiency, the requirement for cooling goes down, with that you can keep the capacitors way cooler than you coold years ago and thus they would live longer in modern units than in the old ones...

But that leaves out the ripple current. And that might be a problem because it could have increased by an order of magnitude over the last couple of years...

Last edited by Stefan Payne; 08-18-2017 at 01:03 PM.
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  #15  
Old 08-19-2017
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Couldn't you vaguely figure out the ripple current at least on the filtering capacitors by measuring the ripple under load with a scope at the output?
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  #16  
Old 4 Weeks Ago
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At 105 C the caps only last a few thousand hours, but for each 10C drop the life doubles; so the high temperature rating also implies long life. One also really wants low ESR capacitors or the heat generated can mean they are too hot inside.

I am one that would rather rebuild an original power supply (with Japanese caps) than buy a new supply.
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  #17  
Old 4 Weeks Ago
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Quote:
I am one that would rather rebuild an original power supply (with Japanese caps) than buy a new supply.
Only if the base is good enough.

I'd have no problem with recapping efficient DC-DC unit which has crappy caps.

But more typical, low-end, group regulated junk with maybe 80% efficiency? Meh.
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  #18  
Old 4 Weeks Ago
ashiekh ashiekh is offline
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You have a good point, but 1W run round the clock costs about $1 a year; so it would take a long time to make up the savings. My machines typically consume less than 100W each so a 10% improvement for a machine used 8hrs a day, would only result in a $3 saving (per year). I also wonder how much the efficiency is improved by the reduced ESR that accompanies quality capacitors (a few percent, I imagine).

Good capacitors are about $1 a piece, so recapping a supply is cheaper than replacing it.

Last edited by ashiekh; 3 Weeks Ago at 04:35 PM.
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