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PC Power Supply Discussion Troubleshooting and discussion of computer power supplies

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Old 04-07-2017
Rasputin Rasputin is offline
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Default Best 400w-500w psu? and another question

Okay guys, I have 2 questions here. I would really appreciate it if you would carefully read them and answer.


1)First of all, Give me the best 400-500w ATX power supply. Something closer to 400w will be more appreciated. I plan on staying with a single mid-end CPU/GPU setup for at least the next 7-8 years and power consumption levels are only going down in this segment.


2)This is a rather complicated one... I currently have a cheap PSU. I do not really expect much from this tin box and carefully stay at least 50w under its max load of 240w on 12v rail (yeah, its that bad). This PSU powers a non-overclockable i5-2500, a basic h61 mobo and a gtx 1050ti (I know its quite a risky setup to run on just 240w of 12v, that's why I asked you guys the first question). So here's the problem....my area suffers from a lot of voltage drops and power outages and iv'e got an entry level UPS to keep me covered. Whenever the voltage drops, I can hear a 'click' sound from my UPS which tells me it has shifted to its battery to keep my system fed. This only happens for about half a second until the voltage jumps back to normal. Here's the catch, during this short time none of the peripherals on my computer work... the mouse, keyboard and my gaming headset all lose power for a split second and I also lose my display!!! The CPU, GPU, RAM, hard drive AND THE MONITOR are still working but I lose my display along with all the peripherals for about half a second when the voltage goes down and regain them all when balance is restored. This shows that I lose the signal sent by my GPU to the monitor. Similar to all the peripherals losing power, the DP output on my GPU also loses power while the actual GPU is still up and running. IT'S ANNOYING AS HELL, especially during a session of intense multiplayer gaming where I end up losing control over my character for a second. This was during voltage drops, it gets even worse during power outages. Sometimes, when all the power goes out, my PC loses power even before it can connect to the PSU's battery power, after my PC is down for good it finally connects to the backup battery and boots the PC like nothing's wrong. I'm left sitting like a dork with all my progress lost. (note that all these things happen within the fraction of a second. It's not like the PSU takes several seconds to start the backup.... It's just a "little" slow by a few milliseconds but that's enough for my system to shut down)


So after that mighty rant, I want to ask you guys who exactly is responsible for this mess? Is it the PSU or the UPS? If it's the PSU then my problem will be automatically solved by your answer to my first question. If it's the UPS, then I'll have to shell out some serious cash on both a top quality PSU and UPS. If both of them are fine and it's actually the fault of power supplied to my house, then I'm fucked.


Some of you guys might say that the problem could be with my motherboard, but this only happens during voltage drops and blackouts, which makes me pretty confident that the fault lies with the PSU and/or UPS.


Thank you guys for reading this ultra-long, ultra-noob question. This issue has really frustrated me for about a month now and I would really like to find a solution. Thanks again
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Old 04-07-2017
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Should be a PSU problem. The UPS will take a few milliseconds to start when the power drops. If that happens the primary cap of your PSU should have enough capacity to give power to the components before switching to the battery of your UPS. If the primary cap doesn't have enough capacity, one or more voltages go out of spec. This could result in above problems.

You by the way don't need the best power supply there is. You just need a good power supply with a good price. The best power supply can only make you feel better, but isn't really better in real life, only really expensive probably.
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Old 04-07-2017
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Thanks -The_Mask-..... can you please give me some examples of 'good power supplies with a good price'
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Old 04-07-2017
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I don't know what available is for you. So can you give us a link to the store were you gonna buy the PSU?
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Old 04-07-2017
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You're in India. So you have bad mains. That's a given.

If you have bad mains and need a PSU that can keep running, just a PSU isn't good enough.

First: The UPS... Make sure the UPS you use has buck and boost AVR. A UPS without buck and boost AVR will simply wait for the power to cut out to switch to battery power. If the voltage browns out nominal, the UPS will not switch to battery power. But one with buck and boost will BOOST the output voltage to a nominal level in the event of a drop in mains voltage.

Make sure the PSU has FULL RANGE and isn't just "240V Only". If the voltage drops to 200V or lower, the PSU won't operate. So, in the above scenario, if the UPS doesn't "boost", your PC shuts off and you lose everything.

Make sure the PSU has proper hold up time. And by that, I mean hold up time WITH maintaining proper output voltages. The specification for hold up time (17ms) is determined on the cycle time of AC power @ 60Hz, which is the AC frequency in the U.S. (1000/60 = 16.6666666ms). That means at full load (which is unlikely), the PSU will stay alive even if the power drops out for one cycle. It often takes an offline or line interactive UPS on cycle to realize there's no power coming from the mains and switch to battery power.

In India, you have AC power at 50Hz. That means your UPS may take longer to kick in and your PSU will hold up for a shorter period of time (10000/50 = 20ms). As long as the PSU is < 85% load and meets Intel spec for hold up time, you should be good.

And finally, going back to the part where I said the PSU should have proper output voltages during a brown out. We've recently found that some PSUs, during a brown out, "cheat" hold up time by allowing the output voltages to drop out of specification as the bulk cap drains. You want to avoid these units if you have a lot of brown outs/power outages as the long term effect could be damage to your hardware. This is probably what you're experiencing today. Your PSU keeps running because it's still getting power, but the DC voltages drop out of spec so the PC can't function properly, but has enough power to keep things "spinning". THAT is a PSU you want to get rid of ASAP.

Aris (Tom's and TechPowerUp) does a great job with testing hold up time.

Example: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...su,4611-4.html
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Last edited by jonnyGURU; 04-07-2017 at 01:34 PM.
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Old 04-07-2017
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Gee thanks.... I kinda feel bad for making you write such a long answer.

Finding out whether my UPS, or any other UPS for that matter, has buck and boost AVR is an impossible task mainly because of how these things are marketed in my country. Everyone just expects them to give backup power and that's it, no other mumbo-jumbo required. I can't find even find the words 'buck and boost AVR' on the specification section of all major e-tailers, including Amazon.in (Also I lost the box and manual of my UPS ages ago and there are no stickers on the actual thing)

But I can give you this hint - whenever I hear the 'click' from my UPS and all the lights in my room blink indicating the deadly voltage drop, its effect on my peripherals and display is not immediate....I mean it's not like one nanosecond where the 'click' is immediately accompanied by my peripherals losing power. Instead it can take up to ONE FULL second (usually less than that) after the 'click' for me to face the inevitable 2 second paralysis.

The 'click' is like a warning sign which tells me that a peril is soon approaching, and then it hits me half a second later.

Using this information, can you deduce whether my UPS is up to the mark or not?

Also I have zeroed in on the Corsair CX-430 as my PSU replacement. I know it's an extremely old model but it's quite cheap on Amazon.in (at least compared to other PSU's). Also you gave it a 9 point rating in your review 6 years ago. Also it has a voltage range of 80-260v so that's covered as well. Please tell me if its a good buy. Thanks!

here's the link - http://www.amazon.in/Corsair-CX-430-...eywords=cx+430
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Old 04-07-2017
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This are the two stores i'm planning to buy from

Amazon India - http://www.amazon.in/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_...=375O47RRTSI8G


md computers - https://www.mdcomputers.in/index.php...tegory&path=68
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Old 04-07-2017
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasputin View Post
Finding out whether my UPS, or any other UPS for that matter, has buck and boost AVR is an impossible task mainly because of how these things are marketed in my country.
You don't know the make and model of your UPS?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasputin View Post
Also I have zeroed in on the Corsair CX-430 as my PSU replacement. I know it's an extremely old model but it's quite cheap on Amazon.in (at least compared to other PSU's).
Going cheap is what got you here in the first place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasputin View Post
Also you gave it a 9 point rating in your review 6 years ago. Also it has a voltage range of 80-260v so that's covered as well. Please tell me if its a good buy. Thanks!
Six years ago it was a 9. Today, not so much. It doesn't have 16ms hold up time; which may not be a problem if you're no where near 85% of the PSU's capability.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasputin View Post
This are the two stores i'm planning to buy from

Amazon India - http://www.amazon.in/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_...=375O47RRTSI8G


md computers - https://www.mdcomputers.in/index.php...tegory&path=68
Looking at Amazon, I would say either the Cooler Master GM 550W or the Corsair RM450.
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Old 04-08-2017
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Thanks man.. Iv'e finalised on the Corsair RM 450. Really thanks for your help


btw here's my UPS - http://www.amazon.in/CHAMPION-UPS-Of...1625804&sr=1-5
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