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PC Power Supply Discussion Troubleshooting and discussion of computer power supplies

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  #11  
Old 08-11-2018
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Originally Posted by -The_Mask- View Post
That's only true for crappy or really low-end power supplies were you gonna load the internal components quite heavy if you load the PSU till 100%. In a high-end power supply you won't put a heavy load on the internal components with a 100% load on the PSU, because the internal components are heavily overrated.
Regardless, it will still last longer at half load; that was my point.
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  #12  
Old 08-11-2018
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Originally Posted by -The_Mask- View Post
That's only true for crappy or really low-end power supplies were you gonna load the internal components quite heavy if you load the PSU till 100%. In a high-end power supply you won't put a heavy load on the internal components with a 100% load on the PSU, because the internal components are heavily overrated.
Exactly, which is why on high-end models we see OPP/OCP set 20-50% above what's actually rated, without any adverse effects on performance while the PSU is delivering above what it's rated for.

That's not to say one should be running the PSU at 120% its rating all the time, but running at 100% 24/7 and within the rated ambient conditions still means the PSU will last at the very least its full warranty period. Usually considerably longer.

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Temperature effects efficiently? It will effect how hard the fan works, but other than this I don't see much dependency (some but not much).
Yep, temperature directly affects efficiency. In connection to the previously stated choice of consistently overrated parts for the job (e.g. MOSFETs capable of 60A continuous never expected to deliver more than 20A), the PSU's components are always operating comfortably within the area beneath the de-rating curve, which makes these thermal effects not manifest in any meaningful way. Additionally, the components selected will usually have thermal ratings of 125C or even higher, and normal operating range of 60-90C, where it won't make that much difference if the ambient air used for cooling is at 10, 20 or 50C due to air's low heat capacity. Actually, air density will have a higher impact on cooling efficiency than the delta between the heatsinks and air temperature will, due to this.

On the other hand, el cheapo PSUs will typically use temperature-sensitive silicon, and will thus exhibit quite a difference in efficiency based on ambient temperature, as you can see for yourself in some of the gutless wonder reviews around the 'net. Now I know I'm partly contradicting myself by saying this, as I hinted at the need for the efficiency curve to include temperature effects to be "correct"... But in a situation where Y-axis range is 80-95% efficiency (as opposed to 0-100%), the effects of temperature should actually be visible, if only just, even for high-end PSUs (0.5 - 1.5% difference between say 20 and 50C ambient, depending on the model).
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Old 08-11-2018
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By efficiency I did not mean cooling efficiency, but rather power conversion efficiency.

Not saying you are wrong, just trying to get a better grip on this.
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Old 08-11-2018
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Originally Posted by ashiekh View Post
Regardless, it will still last longer at half load; that was my point.
Because high-end power supplies are so heavily overrated it's probably not true most of the time. Because when the power supply dies it's probably not because of normal wear and tear. Dying because of an external problem, a failing fan or something similar is probably more likely than normal wear and tear which could be prevented by buying a higher wattage model. Because of that even higher quality power supply is probably a better choice.

Last edited by -The_Mask-; 08-11-2018 at 06:09 PM.
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Old 08-11-2018
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...which could be prevented by buying a higher wattage model.
Are we in agreement then?
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Old 08-11-2018
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Originally Posted by ashiekh View Post
Are we in agreement then?
I believe mr. Greenface used an unfortunate sentence construction here. Let me illustrate:

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Originally Posted by -The_Mask- View Post
Because when the power supply dies it's probably not because of normal wear and tear.
Central point.

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Originally Posted by -The_Mask- View Post
Dying because of an external problem, a failing fan or something similar is probably more likely {to be the failure cause} than normal wear and tear {that one could prevent by buying a higher wattage model} is.
Paraphrased/corrected expansion of the central point.

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Because of that even {choosing a} higher quality power supply is probably a better choice {than going for a higher wattage}.
Final conclusion.
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  #17  
Old 08-11-2018
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Are you saying derating does not increase life span?
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Are we in agreement then?
No we certainly aren't.

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Are you saying derating does not increase life span?
It can help, but choosing a higher wattage power supply, doesn't help the life span if the power supply has internal components that are already heavily overrated.

Last edited by -The_Mask-; 08-11-2018 at 06:21 PM.
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Old 08-11-2018
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Originally Posted by cifroes View Post
thanks for the tips. To be honest I didn't even know the Bitfenix brand, is that recognized as high quality?

The be quiet seems like a good cheaper option. Any comparison between the 2 to see which one is quieter?

Also it seems stock for those 2 brands is a bit flaky in my country. Any chance any of these on this other store are any good for a quiet PSU? : https://www.pcdiga.com/fontes-de-ali...%C3%A7o/37-270

Unrelated question: a bigger wattage PSU will perform worse or better for my requirement of being quieter? I know I'll never need it but there is a promo on the bitfenix 650W that makes it only 4 more than the 450W. But I know PSUs have different efficiency at different wattages so for my relative W needs, is it better or actually worse to go 650W?

I agree pure power 10 and bitfenix formula/whisper are the best options in that price range.

I'd stick to bitfenix though, it is superior in therms of build quality, pure power 10 is more comparable to corsair CX green if not worse

https://www.globaldata.pt/componente...p-fm650ulag-9r


And don't get into the HIGH QUALITY BRAND thing. It's bullcrap

most brands make good and bad/low-end products. You need to think about the specific model

regarding wattage, the 650W seems to be the best deal if you want more room to add power hungry graphics cards and stuff, which, in workstation computers may come in handy

But yea efficiency is going to be awful with a low power system like that. 450W bitfenix whisper M makes more sense to me, still plenty of power for mid-range and high-end GPUs, 7 year warranty and fully modular

both both are OK
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  #20  
Old 08-11-2018
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Originally Posted by -The_Mask- View Post
It can help, but choosing a higher wattage power supply, doesn't help the life span if the power supply has internal components that are already heavily overrated.
So the lifespan in that case is fixed (electrolytic capacitors don't last forever, even when overrated) and would not be extended by running it below the maximum output?
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