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PC Power Supply Discussion Troubleshooting and discussion of computer power supplies

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  #21  
Old 01-10-2018
SaintsEnd SaintsEnd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -The_Mask
Yeah you said that. But as asked before; the cables are all the way visible, from the beginning to the end? Because if only the beginning and/or the end is visible you don't need cables like that.
Of course it is. why would I bother else?

Quote:
Originally Posted by -The_Mask
Using cable extensions is more a dumb idea then sense wires.
Literally my point though and obviously enough people do it or they wouldn't sell, Isnt there an unused pin in the 24pin anyways?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashiekh
It is part of compensating for the voltage drop across the cable, and so is rather important; without it the voltage will sag under load, which is not very pretty.

* The 3.3V sense is part of the 24 pin standard (ATX spec 2.1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_...)#cite_note-38)

* "Another example is in the ATX power supply standard, which includes a remote sense wire connected to the 3.3 V supply line at connector pin 13, but no sense connection for the ground wires." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four-terminal_sensing)


Lets run 40 amp through 14 gauge wire
https://www.supercircuits.com/resour...rop-calculator
then one drops 0.2V over a foot, and sense wires sense this and the power supply compensates.

Doesn't seem like such a bad idea to me.
sorry i'll clarify, when i'm referring to this as a dumb idea i'm talking about the implementation. It doesnt actually solve the problem, just literally extend it I guess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefan Payne
No, its not.
Because you have a voltage drop on the cable.
So to make the voltage regulation better, you have these voltage sense wires.

You have similar things in electronics.
Look for 4 wire measurements...

Why waste a pin on the Motherboard??

But yes, the ATX specification is totally overaged and around 22 Years old right now if I remember correctly...
So if the problem was to solve voltage drop to the motherboard, then it needs a pin to the motherboard. else its not really solving it. Cause Extension. What happens when people use riser cards for pcie devices? I don't see any "Sense cable" on those or maybe its built in, not sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnyGURU
We understand what you want.
We're telling you it doesn't exist.
If jonnyGURU hasn't reviewed a power supply, does it exist?

Man I just wanted a suggestion for my best option before buying another psu cause my P2 is spaghetti. All I've gotten is no, or yes but don't use it. Maybe I should just ask cable-mod -_-
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  #22  
Old 01-10-2018
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Originally Posted by SaintsEnd View Post
sorry i'll clarify, when i'm referring to this as a dumb idea i'm talking about the implementation.
It is in the very nature of sense wires to have more lines on the input than the output, so I'm not sure the problem is with the implementation.

For me the problem with todays standard is generating so many precise voltages so far from the loads that use them, but that may change in the future. If so there may be no need for so many wires, or even sense wires, and things would be much tidier with just one rough voltage going to the mother board. As I have mentioned many times before, the ATX size power supply on my HP Compaq 8000 Elite Convertible Minitower PC only supplies 12V (that's right, no 20/24 pin connector), but I guess that idea didn't catch on (yet)
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File Type: jpg s-l1600[1].jpg (98.8 KB, 5 views)
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  #23  
Old 01-10-2018
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Originally Posted by TheStoka View Post
IMO i would consider a service like CableMod or similar pre-sleeved cable kits i believe Corsair and EVGA even have there own available to buy. For the amount of time it takes to sleeve your own the price they charge is good value.
Another alternative is to buy a pre-sleeved PSU.
Once again as I said earlier.......

Just to make it extra clear. Buy a PSU of your pleasing, then buy a new set of sleeved cables done by professionals. Problem solved.
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  #24  
Old 01-10-2018
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Originally Posted by TheStoka View Post
Once again as I said earlier.......

Just to make it extra clear. Buy a PSU of your pleasing, then buy a new set of sleeved cables done by professionals. Problem solved.
I'm originally from the UK, and couldn't agree more.
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  #25  
Old 01-10-2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintsEnd View Post
If jonnyGURU hasn't reviewed a power supply, does it exist?
Of course not. But it doesn't exist for multiple reasons and that's been explained to you.

Even if you didn't have sense wires, the pinout is. T one to one because it would complicate the modular PCB.

If PC PSUs were 12V only, so many problems would be solved.. Including yours.
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  #26  
Old 01-11-2018
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Cass-Olé Cass-Olé is offline
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Type 3 Pinout.jpg
That hand-done graph is mine, for use in my custom wiring projects when my clients buy a Corsair Type 3 product like Ax1500i 1200i Hx1000i etc

As you can see, the 10/14 basically go 1-7 8-12 / 13-24 13-19, or about as clean as it gets. See / visualize the front panel 10/14, as close to a one-to-one as I've seen
PTDC0003.jpgPTDC0015.jpgPTDC00021.jpg
These are part of my custom wiring project started last Friday for my Seasonic / XFX 1250; high-current gold-tips + Lutro0 16gauge thin-jacket wire, 24pin requires 4 sense wires; I have zero interest in a clean look, not sure what the fuss is all about, at least in a mono-color u can 'hide' tangles mid-cable, but, whatever; try Type3, or, look for them online in a pic or vid so u can see what the 24pin looks like out of the pre-sleeved box

1500i FPanel.jpg
My hand-done 1500i Pinout (which applies to all Type3 models)

The 24pin inputs - what I call the 10 / 14 branches - literally go right to left as 1-12 & 13-24

Why you require a visual state-of-perfection at both ends of the cable is just ... pshhhhh ... but as I said, there u go, & if I'm reading your expectations right, then Type3 it is

Moving on, pin #20 - the unused pin in the motherboard end of the 24pin - can serve a purpose by freeing-up a tooth in your comb--> when using a cable comb in tandem with a strict 24-wire setup (ie just the pin #13 3.3v sense - or - simply 12wires in the top row 13-24), all 12 wires in the top row (including the duplicate / dual #13 sense) can all fall into the 12 toothed comb, understand? Since pin #13 is jumped by ATX standard, install say the 13 Primary into spot 13 of the comb, install the sense 13 into spot 14 of the comb, all the way down, until wire 24 inserts into tooth 24 for a perfect look

There are 12 wires in the top row with latch + an unused pin 20, so, all 12 teeth get a wire; at the modular Type 3 end, pins 1-12 / 13-24 (24 wires total) can stay 'clean' once a 10 / 14 comb (or full 24 comb) is placed on those ends

A model like EVGA (or Corsair Type4) that uses several sense wires, u can not have all wires go into the comb without a 'messy look' (unless a special deep comb is used, like in the new RMx 850)

____________
PSA: CableMod

On models like EVGA G3 G2 P2 T2 or Corsair Type 4 (both of which include 1000watt / 1600watt models), CableMod uses what to me qualifies as dangerously-thin 20gauge for the 12volt sense wire AND it's paired to a 20gauge for the Primary 12v --> they use skinny wires to make the jumps, like primary+sense wires & 100% of the Grfx pigtails with jumper 6+2 --> if you want a box of cables ate up with 20gauge 12V wires, be my guest. Call 911 if their cables make your house burn down, ok

States-of Perfection do not exist inside boxes of Cablemod cables, u can tell 'em I said so ... can't wait to see the 1st fool to pair them up with Ax1600i, oh my
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Last edited by Cass-Olé; 01-11-2018 at 07:43 AM.
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  #27  
Old 01-11-2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintsEnd View Post
Of course it is. why would I bother else?
I don't know, but I've seen people ask silly things.

But you aren't giving much information. The first post hardly has any information, that's why you get all these questions.

Quote:
Literally my point though and obviously enough people do it or they wouldn't sell
People do stupid stuff all the time, it's quite difficult to change that.
Quote:
Isnt there an unused pin in the 24pin anyways?
That doesn't make a difference.
Quote:
So if the problem was to solve voltage drop to the motherboard, then it needs a pin to the motherboard. else its not really solving it.
Yes if you want a perfect stable voltage on a specific point at your motherboard, you indeed need to put the sense wire there. Not that it's very useful by the way, but that's another discussion.


Quote:
If jonnyGURU hasn't reviewed a power supply, does it exist?

Man I just wanted a suggestion for my best option before buying another psu cause my P2 is spaghetti. All I've gotten is no, or yes but don't use it. Maybe I should just ask cable-mod -_-
That's just stupid. You just want something that's quite difficult and is quite illogical for a modern PSU, for reasons explained before.

We also gave you a good option with the Cougar LX, have you looked at that one? Second option could be the be quiet! Straight Power 11 serie, which isn't launched yet.

http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15107
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  #28  
Old 01-11-2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cass-Olé View Post
___________
PSA: CableMod

On models like EVGA G3 G2 P2 T2 or Corsair Type 4 (both of which include 1000watt / 1600watt models), CableMod uses what to me qualifies as dangerously-thin 20gauge for the 12volt sense wire AND it's paired to a 20gauge for the Primary 12v --> they use skinny wires to make the jumps, like primary+sense wires & 100% of the Grfx pigtails with jumper 6+2 --> if you want a box of cables ate up with 20gauge 12V wires, be my guest. Call 911 if their cables make your house burn down, ok

States-of Perfection do not exist inside boxes of Cablemod cables, u can tell 'em I said so ... can't wait to see the 1st fool to pair them up with Ax1600i, oh my
Sense wires can be as thin as one wants, but are you saying they are using 20 gauge for the current carrying wires?
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  #29  
Old 01-11-2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashiekh View Post
Sense wires can be as thin as one wants, but are you saying they are using 20 gauge for the current carrying wires?
When a 12v sense wire is involved (example Corsair Type 4, not Type 3), any PSU (Seasonic / EVGA), I'm saying they use 20gauge for the primary current-carrying wire

Imagine you bought EVGA 1600 + Intel 7980XE + 2/3/4 1080Ti, imagine a 20gauge inside your 24pin on pin #10 12v (primary + sense)

The pigtail PCI-E cables are 100% 20g. Wherever there's a jump, 20g--> buy a box, pull that sleeve back, see for yourself

Their motto is 'thin and flexible' for a reason, lol

BitFenix does it too for all their jumps ... you'd think they'd use an 18g primary + a 22g sense jumped to it, nope --> dual-20g ... scam, scandal, call it what u want

I posted on OC3D & Hardware Canuck's uTube review videos 2years ago about CableMod's shit wires, are you saying no one on this forum's ever heard this? No one ever peeled the sleeves back to check the wire gauge ... ... ...
Capture.JPG

PTDC0002.jpg
Local PawnShop $10 a box, left CoolerMaster by Seasonic rated for the V1200, right Silverstone rated for the 1500

Silverstone uses sense wire on pin 13 only, so the 24pin is ok, pigtail Grfx cables are ate up w/20g
PTDC0022 - Copy.jpg
CoolerMaster 24pin above has 4 sense wires, 12v on pin 10 + sense wire on pin 10, both 20g, best photo I could take. That means the ground, 3.3 & 5v are also 20g in the 24pin
Capture1.JPG
What we know about the CoolerMaster pinout above is that the Grfx cables are housed in a 6pin modular connector, therefore, not just the pigtails (100% 20g ie all 8 wires) but even on the main discrete vid-cables (just a 6+2) --> x4 of the grounds are 20g, due to the 6pin where x4 wires have to jump into that 6pin to make the cable. So here, even the discrete cables are ate up w/20g along w/the pigtails in the same box
PTDC0004.jpg
BitFenix is also an offender, right is the miles of junk 20g I pulled out of it & replaced for my purple / white sleeving project seen earlier; 12v primary in the Type4 24pin (now possibly rated for Ax1600i), 20g; pigtail Grfx 100% 20g, 2pin in the 6+2 discrete Grfx cable 20g. Believe it

Buy their EVGA Box rated for 1600w, new / used, who cares, pull back the sleeves on pin 10
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Last edited by Cass-Olé; 01-11-2018 at 09:42 PM.
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