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  #1  
Old 05-05-2007
JamesH123 JamesH123 is offline
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Default Ultra X-Finity 600w Quality

How much of what this guy says is true? I can't find any reliable reviews on the X-Finity 600w :O

This is Cut/pasted from this thread

"Actually this PSU IS overrated, IS low quality, and does not have the implied efficiency numbers in typical use. The cited efficiency is a best-case scenario with particular rail loads as optimal as possible towards the rating.

We can't really fault Ultra for that though, many manufacturers paint their products in best light possible when it comes to efficiency figures. You aren't going to find a PSU with substantially better efficiency at low cost (nor worse, this is about average on current generation budget PSU). The numbers from the Bigbruin review are not really efficiency, the reviewer meant only power factor and should not have used the term efficiency at all in that context.

However, Compwiz is clearly wrong that it would be ok if it had 64% efficiency as a 600W PSU. It would definitely pop from overheating in that scenario as it would be 338W of heat which is a level a low RPM 12mm fan cannot handle, nor could the heatsinks in this unit come remotely close to it. Compwiz doesn't like specifics though, like that this unit isn't even built well enough to support that 77% efficiency for the MTBF rating.

Compwiz, while this may be a good deal to get for free after rebate, there is no imagination at all required to see it is not even average compared to any decent 600W PSU. It should not be rated as 600W, and as always the QC is horrible. Once again reviews show pictures where they didn't even bother to wash off flux residue or make sure the chips were sitting in the board before soldered down, which is something even 3rd world sweatshops usually did fine 20 years ago. I wonder if they use children to make these because it really is strange to see some of the manufacturing mistakes on such a low-tech single sided FR1* PCB. Even a retarded person could see that when two PCB silkscreens overlap, something has to give, both parts can't occupy the same space.

You don't see these most basic of design flaws on any decent name brand 600W PSU. "600W" qualifier is unessential, you don't see that on any other wattage either.

These PSU are a lottery. If you didn't really need a 600W PSU, if you inspect it carefully before hooking up to anything valuable (which means opening it, voiding the warranty at that point), and run it at modest load, you then only need to replace the capacitors and fan after awhile IF the sample you receive didn't have any defects that put it out of commission.

The larger picture here is what it takes to arrive at a PSU that is FAR. Corners are cut and clearly so upon examination rather than a shallow web review that just had one work ok for a short test. Nobody is starving just to give you a free product, if you want to save a buck on this then be aware of it's limits and proactive in checking it before use. Running one at ~ 200W output for a longer period is a great test of whether it's suitably rated as a 200W PSU. Problem is, PSU wattage is a primary marketing and engineering criteria that can't be made-up or implied as sustained when it's peak, momentary.

Understand the difference. A PSU rated for momentary output might sustain that output for an hour without bursting into flames, but it can't run like that long term. An honestly rated PSU CAN RUN LIKE THAT. 600W of Ultra power <> 600W of several other brands.

I didn't say it was a bad deal, because it is so incredibly cheap, but it's no replacement for a good 600W PSU if you need one, and the buyer becomes the final step in the QC and testing process."

Answer if you have time to read his essay.
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Old 05-06-2007
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Why dont you read the review on the 600 Watt X-Finity that Jon has in the review section and see for your self? The graphs that are in the post are from this review as well.
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Old 05-06-2007
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Dave_C obviously can't find his ass with both hands, I'd ignore him.
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Old 05-06-2007
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I'm wasting time on this more not because dave_c doesn't know what he's talking about, but because Compwiz stole my tables and didn't give jonnyguru.com any credit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesH123 View Post
How much of what this guy says is true? I can't find any reliable reviews on the X-Finity 600w :O

This is Cut/pasted from this thread

"Actually this PSU IS overrated, IS low quality, and does not have the implied efficiency numbers in typical use. The cited efficiency is a best-case scenario with particular rail loads as optimal as possible towards the rating.

We can't really fault Ultra for that though, many manufacturers paint their products in best light possible when it comes to efficiency figures. You aren't going to find a PSU with substantially better efficiency at low cost (nor worse, this is about average on current generation budget PSU). The numbers from the Bigbruin review are not really efficiency, the reviewer meant only power factor and should not have used the term efficiency at all in that context.

However, Compwiz is clearly wrong that it would be ok if it had 64% efficiency as a 600W PSU. It would definitely pop from overheating in that scenario as it would be 338W of heat which is a level a low RPM 12mm fan cannot handle, nor could the heatsinks in this unit come remotely close to it. Compwiz doesn't like specifics though, like that this unit isn't even built well enough to support that 77% efficiency for the MTBF rating.
True... the unit in question is NOT very efficient, but he can't substantiate this last statement. The whole reason this PSU has the two 80MM fans blowing front to back and has the style heatsinks it does is to allow proper airflow to keep the unit cool. It's not an overrated unit and it can sustain it's max rating (read my review and the one over at Xbit and the one at SPCR.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesH123 View Post
Compwiz, while this may be a good deal to get for free after rebate, there is no imagination at all required to see it is not even average compared to any decent 600W PSU. It should not be rated as 600W, and as always the QC is horrible. Once again reviews show pictures where they didn't even bother to wash off flux residue or make sure the chips were sitting in the board before soldered down, which is something even 3rd world sweatshops usually did fine 20 years ago. I wonder if they use children to make these because it really is strange to see some of the manufacturing mistakes on such a low-tech single sided FR1* PCB. Even a retarded person could see that when two PCB silkscreens overlap, something has to give, both parts can't occupy the same space.
This comment is both subjective and incorrect.

I've looked at a few reviews (didn't have any pics of the inside on mine for some reason) and I could find no flux residue. What I did find is the "caulk" they use to dampen vibration so heavier parts don't become desoldered and fall from the board (like the blob of qhite goo under the Koshin cap in this pic: http://www.bigbruin.com/reviews05/im...file=pic10.jpg )

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesH123 View Post
You don't see these most basic of design flaws on any decent name brand 600W PSU. "600W" qualifier is unessential, you don't see that on any other wattage either.

These PSU are a lottery. If you didn't really need a 600W PSU, if you inspect it carefully before hooking up to anything valuable (which means opening it, voiding the warranty at that point), and run it at modest load, you then only need to replace the capacitors and fan after awhile IF the sample you receive didn't have any defects that put it out of commission.
Again, he's being more subjective than objective. He's making the assumption that changing caps is going to help this unit somehow. Why? Ok.. That might help an Antec with a good deal of Fuhjyyu caps in it, but the 600W X-Finity neither has Fuhjyyu caps no does it have restricted airflow. He seems to imply a vast experience with this particular unit, but makes references that do not apply to it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesH123 View Post
The larger picture here is what it takes to arrive at a PSU that is FAR. Corners are cut and clearly so upon examination rather than a shallow web review that just had one work ok for a short test. Nobody is starving just to give you a free product, if you want to save a buck on this then be aware of it's limits and proactive in checking it before use. Running one at ~ 200W output for a longer period is a great test of whether it's suitably rated as a 200W PSU. Problem is, PSU wattage is a primary marketing and engineering criteria that can't be made-up or implied as sustained when it's peak, momentary.
Again, he doesn't know the product and he doesn't know how rebates work.

Both Oleg, SPCR and I ran static loads on this PSU and never had any issues or concerns. Also, this PSU is OEM for the Systemax Sabre rig which is a high end machine with a Bad Axe two and a pair of 1950XTX cards. For whatever reason, he wants to imply to people that he's familiar with this unit, yet he is not. Which makes me think he has an axe to grind or works for another PSU company because why else would someone write a NOVEL railing against a FAR PSU?

He also seems to imply that the PSU is "made for" a FAR (exact words: "the corner cutting necessary to arrive at FAR.") That's very naive as it implies that this PSU was built simply to sell for free. Talk about "Reality 101" (also quoted from dave_c). This product has been around a long time and has sold for over $100 for more than a year.

FYI: Rebates are done to motivate sales, motivate income in an otherwise slow season. Sometimes rebates are used to motivate resellers to pick up additional sku's that they would not ordinarily carry. Sometimes it's just to blow out an old product (probably the case here.) I really don't think there are any products on the market made specifically to be free after rebate. Because, if you think about it (something certain people are incable of doing) retail price is GREATER than cost. Duh.. that's how resellers make money. SO if the rebate makes the product free after rebate and the reseller is still making their markup, then it actually costs at least as much as the markup on said product to make it free after rebate. Hello? Yeah.. they're making products that they can lose money on... yet still stay in business.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesH123 View Post
Understand the difference. A PSU rated for momentary output might sustain that output for an hour without bursting into flames, but it can't run like that long term. An honestly rated PSU CAN RUN LIKE THAT. 600W of Ultra power <> 600W of several other brands.
Again.. subjective. He's already made the assumption that this PSU can't run 600W sustained. Does he have a load tester? Did he throw a 600W X-Finity up on the bench and hold it at 600W for any length or period of time. I'm willing to be the answer is no.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesH123 View Post
I didn't say it was a bad deal, because it is so incredibly cheap, but it's no replacement for a good 600W PSU if you need one, and the buyer becomes the final step in the QC and testing process."

Answer if you have time to read his essay.
So summary: dave_c didn't read any of the reviews. dave_c doesn't have this PSU or really knows anything about it. dave_c likes to ramble on.

Yup. "Essay." This guy clearly has an agenda... or he's a troll. Could be just a troll because I just wasted 10 non-refundable minutes responding to him in a forum he'll probably never grace and now I'm angry because my coffee is cold.

But ultimately... who cares? It's just a PSU. It's not a Powmax or Deer, thank god, and it's free after rebate and has a warranty from a reputable company. I'm just floored that dave_c wasted so much energy to ramble on like that. Fascinating really.
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Last edited by jonnyGURU; 05-06-2007 at 11:44 AM.
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Old 05-06-2007
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You basically said the same thing I did but with many more words and after getting way more stressed about it. Bro, you can't let those idiots push your buttons like that, you'll end up with a myocardial infarction before you reach my age.
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Old 05-06-2007
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Someone quoted Bigbruin saying that an Enermax was 99% efficient and thus much better than the other units. Ok....they can safely be ignored if they can't figure out BigBruin was wrong and used PF instead of efficiency as the measure of efficiency.
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Old 05-06-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madmat View Post
Bro, you can't let those idiots push your buttons like that, you'll end up with a myocardial infarction before you reach my age.
LOL... I'm not stressed about it. I just hate to think that people actually listen to people like this simply because they use big words like "flux residue" and "PCB silkscreens" and "myocardial infarction"... oh wait.. that last one was you.
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Old 05-06-2007
JamesH123 JamesH123 is offline
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Thanks so much for replying, Dave_C always posts crap like this about Ultra PSUs and it got so annoying I needed to ask people that knew a lot more about PSUs than me. Next time I can just post a link to this thread

Quote:
I'm wasting time on this more not because dave_c doesn't know what he's talking about, but because Compwiz stole my tables and didn't give jonnyguru.com any credit.
Compwiz actually quotes you a lot, I’m surprised he didn't give out a link to this site like he usually does.

Quote:
Why dont you read the review on the 600 Watt X-Finity that Jon has in the review section and see for your self? The graphs that are in the post are from this review as well.
O, I couldn't find it. I thought I remembered reading one but when I typed "Ultra X-Finity site:jonnyguru.com" in on google nothing came up.

Thanks again-
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Old 05-06-2007
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http://www.slcentral.com/ultra-x-finity-600w-psu/
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Old 05-06-2007
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http://www.jonnyguru.com/review_details.php?id=34
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