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Thread: Basic heat question

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    Default Basic heat question

    I'm trying to understand why my PC turns my room into a sauna, so I can avoid it in my next build. Currently I have an Ultra X3 1000W PSU, which to be honest I'm not sure what it may or may not contribute. Or for that matter what to expect any PSU would. Just to be clear, I never ended up needing 1000W at all. In my next build I'm thinking about changing over to an Antec P183 case and going with their proprietary CP-850 power supply. Not that I think I'll even need 850 watts, but that's where their range starts and people recommend this one for noise. So do power supplies have much to do with how my machine makes my room hot anyway? Is it better to go with more or less wattage? Someone actually told me having more overhead decreased effort and therefore heat, but I'm not sure they weren't thinking of cars.

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    What was your old rig, and what will be the new?

    My first quad-core burned around 100 watts at idle.
    Similarly, the old high end graphics cards could be putting out 100 watts 24/7 just sitting on your desk.

    I had a high-end rig that would generate 325 watts just sitting. Put 3 (100) watt bulbs on your desk, and you will certainly feel the room warm up over time.

    My point is that the greatest factor by a long shot will be picking and setting up you major components. The correct PSU will help, but only by a few percent afterwards.

    New high end graphics cards ramp down when not in use to 0-15 watts. That is huge compared to 90-100 watts. An intel I7 2700 K will likewise provide an insane amount of compute power in use and will idle down to almost nothing. Having the entire rig idle down to 60-70 watts makes a huge difference.

    After components, then picking a high efficiency PSU will save you an additional 10-25 watts of heat.
    Picking too large a psu will cause you to have poor efficiency at low loads.

    The Zen is get the PSU to be running all the time in its most efficient range, Bronze, Silver, Gold, and even PLAT. will drop off significantly at less than 20% efficiency.

    So, to pick your best, you need to the know the max. and also the estimated low for your rig. (90% of rigs will spend 70-80 % of their life not in max. active use>)

    PS. The Antec you referenced is a robust model, but for the price you can do better on the efficiency (and consequently the heat out-put) depending on how many graphics cards and how much you intend to OC.
    Last edited by mdk777; 05-12-2012 at 11:06 AM.

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    Default

    Thanks for the great response. This is an old Intel Q9450 and I think a first gen Asus Rampage mobo, 8 gigs of RAM, and a new Radeon 7950 which represented an astounding improvement over the dinosaur 8800 GTX OC. The machine still raises the room temp 3-6 degrees, but with its smart idle I doubt the GPU is the culprit now. Also there are 5 terabytes across 3 drives.

    The new build will esentially be a Puget Serenity with a 3770S or K and 16 GB of 30nm RAM. I must decide whether I'll step down to a passive 7750 for even better heat and noise, or try to accomodate the 7950 and keep things absolutely low key as possible. So do you think I can do better than the CP-850 in either scenario?

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    Yeah, you are talking about a 77 watt CPU and at worst case a 150 watt GPU.

    http://www.guru3d.com/article/msi-ra...r-iii-review/8

    You need to be looking at 400-550 watts instead of 850 watts.


    modular 550 PLAT. $125 delivered.

    Very quite, ramps down to zero fan when low load...

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817121094

    You will be running a great deal in the 70 watt to 225 range.

    The antec will be 75-85 efficient.
    The Kingwing will be 85-92 %

    say 100 watt /.8 =125 watt
    100/ .9 = 111 watt

    So 14 watt cooler.

    Huge? No but for similar price, it is hands down the better choice.

    Both are reviewed here. Like I said, the antec is robust, but 2008 tech...time flies.

    Silent PC has reviews of both models so you can compare sound characteristics.

    PS. anandtech tests GPU wattage using a 1200 watt PSU

    http://www.anandtech.com/show/5476/a...-7950-review/5

    Consequently their numbers are just BS.
    Last edited by mdk777; 05-14-2012 at 01:48 AM.

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    Default

    lol, if 1200W is skewing their numbers, that is bad news...

    Well that's a great recommendation man. I'm just a bit confused by Kingwin's multiple 550's. You linked the AP-550, SPCR reviews the LZW-550 and I also ran into the LZP-550. The AP(Absolute Platinum) is $35 cheaper than the LZP (Lazer Platinum). I wonder which is the newest/best/most refined of the three? Also can you think of any advantages the CP-850 has? Like I heard some of these which shut off their fans have the inverse problem of being irritating with their on/off woosh. No reviews really paint that picture here though.

    Also, this is off topic a bit, but do you think if I never planned to overclock, the 3770S at 65W represents potentially further savings in heat over the 3770K? Then again that's jumping down to 3.1 GHz from 3.5, so would probably require nothing short of OCD.

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    raw Mhz alone does not a faster CPU make

    Would you believe that unless you are benchmarking that you would not notice the difference between 3.1 and 3.5 in "performance"

    afaik going for the S wiht moderate to high load might indeed save on the heat output. If you leave all power-saving options enabled, then an S or K or anything else will not make too much of a difference when idle, we've gone to save several kilowatts since "Prescott"

    However, if you ever decide to try to push (OC), then you'll run into the limits of the S fairly fast. That said, Intel did produce some incredible sturdy "S" series in the past.

    As for power consumption and heat output, somewhere, someone did probably actually test and measure this in depth; so you dont have to take my word for it.

    Things that can help to reduce the heat signature:
    -get rid of harddrives , replace by SSD
    -enable all power savings settings on MB
    -get the right/recent drivers for everything, esspecially GPU
    -consider a 3th party driver/tool which allows for throthling even more (eg standby after one minute)
    -if CRT monitor, replace by LCD/Oled
    -etc

    And of course, you could get creative with cardboard to direct heated air out of the window, and fresh air into the PC-case

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    I'm just a bit confused by Kingwin's multiple 550's. You linked the AP-550, SPCR reviews the LZW-550 and I also ran into the LZP-550. The AP(Absolute Platinum) is $35 cheaper than the LZP (Lazer Platinum). I wonder which is the newest/best/most refined of the three?
    I thought I linked the one that was on sale...they come and go quickly obviously...

    The AP is not modular and gets the price down to compete with Antec PLAT. (which are OK but not as good as the KingWin) AP is newer, but LZW is their premium model.

    Also can you think of any advantages the CP-850 has?
    It is designed for the ANTEC case....If you really like the Antec Cases, it will help with CASE cooling. This is not the same as your OP of ROOM cooling, see the difference ?

    It is a good PSU, just not the most efficient available by a long shot (which will result in the lowest room temp.)

    I like my cases to have enough very low RMP fans so that it is silent, but so I am not depending on the PSU fan for exhaust.

    Also, this is off topic a bit, but do you think if I never planned to overclock, the 3770S at 65W represents potentially further savings in heat over the 3770K? Then again that's jumping down to 3.1 GHz from 3.5, so would probably require nothing short of OCD.
    Yeah, as RnRollie said, S models are just down clocked versions...for those who just want to buy it and leave it....you can achieve the same or better results by careful settings in BIOS and various voltage regulation programs.

    Again, decent aftermarket cooling(CPU and case) allows very quite when in normal use, but plenty of capacity when you are pushing hard...obviating the need to keep clocks down...S Models are really more important for small cases with limited air flow and stock coolers...The OEM can know you won't overload the thermals in normal use.

    PS. There are plenty of good Gold PSU units to look at also. I just picked the best at your existing price point.

    Seasonic, Capstone Etc. will all be lower/same price with better efficiency.

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817151098

    Just keep in the 450 watt to 650 watt models...if keeping absolute room BTU in check is your chief criteria....I often end up buying more than I need for no other reason than that model goes on sale for an insane low price that I can't pass up.

    Rosewill Gold on sale 15 % off at he egg until 5/21

    eg. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...rder=BESTMATCH

    450 semi-mod for $70 del
    650 semi-mod for $110 del
    Last edited by mdk777; 05-15-2012 at 09:42 AM.

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    So I am a bit worried if the case's cooling requirements went up, the case fans' duties would as well, resulting in more noise. What is it about the CP-850 that helps in that?

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    i fyou are willing to put some money into it, you can get very very good & silent (case) fans. In any size you want

    http://uk.hardware.info/reviews/2614...-fans-reviewed

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    What is it about the CP-850 that helps in that?
    Well, the idea was that the extra height allowed more air flow unobstructed.

    But, it is the only Case and PSU to adopt the unique size right?
    And they haven't updated any of their high end PSU models to that profile right?

    Just seems like it does not make a huge difference. I don't doubt that it makes some,...just not enough...

    Read the reviews on Newegg for the Seasonic 560 X that I listed.
    I don't own the model, but they say you can set the fan to low instead of letting it stop completely. Might address the questions you have.

    All in all, you are over-thinking the PSU...The fan on the 7950 will ramp up well before you have to worry about a high-end PSU fan becoming noticeable.
    Same goes for the CPU cooler.

    Your rig will need to be pushed really, really hard to get above 300 watt continuous... so either the KingWin or the Seasonic will seldom if ever start the fan at all if you leave the control on the default.

    If you want really quite, start looking at a CPU cooler that idles down to 600 RPM, and Variable speed case fans (I am not impressed with the stock ANTEC) (owned the old P180 CASE)

    These will be a noise problem well before your PSU.

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