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Thread: Battery in desktop PSU

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    Default Battery in desktop PSU

    I'm thinking that an ATX PSU which incorporated a continuously-charged battery would allow desktops to share the "built-in UPS" functionality that laptops do. It wouldn't need to work for hours on end, perhaps just 15 minutes -- just long enough for the user to do a graceful shutdown (or even automatically via monitoring software, if they included a data cable for monitoring.)

    Has this been done, or is there a reason why it wouldn't work?

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    Laptops have display built in...

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    yeah Nipron has something like that:

    https://www.nipron.co.jp/english/pro...cgi?p=20294201

    and Gigabyte had a prototype at Computex last summer:

    http://www.guru3d.com/news/gigabyte-...s-at-computex/

    I think it was 500W, not 400...2 minute backup time is at full load so it'd be relative to the actual load at the time.

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    Delta has had this for a long time. Ever open up a p3 dell optiplex or p3 hp vectra, if you look at the delta psu it has a little three pin connector on the back. You can buy a battery that goes in the 5 1/4" drive bay that plugs in and gives you about 15mins run time.
    Quote Originally Posted by JFK
    The American, by nature, is optimistic. He is experimental, an inventor and a builder who builds best when called upon to build greatly

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    Quote Originally Posted by 370forlife View Post
    Delta has had this for a long time. Ever open up a p3 dell optiplex or p3 hp vectra, if you look at the delta psu it has a little three pin connector on the back. You can buy a battery that goes in the 5 1/4" drive bay that plugs in and gives you about 15mins run time.
    Thanks guys. I wonder why it isn't more prevalent because it seems like a very useful feature. For example, the power in our office flakes out a couple times each year. The laptop users just keep working as the desktop users wail and gnash their teeth.

    I was envisioning something with an inline battery that constantly powers the system and keeps going for a short while (or better still, a long while) when the main power is lost, whereas the delta battery sounds like it's powering the PSU only when the main power is lost. I was also hoping for something contained within the ATX PSU itself, if it's doable. The Gigabyte prototype sounds very promising and hopefully they can get a more powerful battery. Two minutes @400W seems really light.

    The point about the display being external hadn't occurred to me. You could probably put an AC receptacle on the back if you had large enough warning labels. (My LCD only consumes about 0.5A @ 120V, but I suppose some monkey might try to plug in a space heater...)

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    What's wrong with buying an external UPS? A better solution all around, IMO, because you can size it large enough to run both computer and monitor for long enough to do a graceful shutdown.

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    Quote Originally Posted by muddocktor View Post
    What's wrong with buying an external UPS? A better solution all around, IMO, because you can size it large enough to run both computer and monitor for long enough to do a graceful shutdown.
    Thats the problem with the delta thing. It only powers the computer, I guess it's supposed to allow you to run just the monitors off of the UPS and the computers have their own, so you only need one or two UPS's for all the monitors.

    I think a UPS is a much better solution though.
    Quote Originally Posted by JFK
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    Quote Originally Posted by muddocktor View Post
    What's wrong with buying an external UPS? A better solution all around, IMO, because you can size it large enough to run both computer and monitor for long enough to do a graceful shutdown.
    Of course I could buy an external UPS, that's not the point. I'm not looking for a solution, I'm trying to understand why this isn't standard issue yet.

    External UPS are a poor solution for desktops: bulky, noisy, tremendously expensive, and they don't last very long at all despite their size. They really aren't much of an improvement over connecting a car battery.

    Whereas every laptop, even a really large and inefficient one, has a long-life battery measured in hours -- and they've got much less real estate to work with. The high-end laptops don't consume all that much more power than an HTPC or modest desktop. I'm assuming we're not talking about a gamer rig.

    But if they can make gigantic 1500W PSUs for the gamers, they should be able to make a ~300-500W model in the same space with a built-in UPS that lasts more than a couple of minutes, no?

    Maybe there just isn't enough demand yet, but I suspect someday there will be as more people expect their PC to be working on scheduled tasks 24/7.

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    Quote Originally Posted by muddocktor View Post
    What's wrong with buying an external UPS? A better solution all around, IMO, because you can size it large enough to run both computer and monitor for long enough to do a graceful shutdown.
    If with this approach the PSU were to power the DC outputs directly from the battery, it would be considerably more efficient. Remember that with a UPS, the battery power is converted to AC and then the PSU turns it back into DC, which introduces quite a bit of unnecessary power loss.
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    IMO you are still trying to get unnecessarily complicated, putting a battery into the psu. If anything, you would want a modular approach being taken because the damn batteries don't last that long (in UPS's, laptops or whatever) and you can't expect someone to buy a new combo psu/battery thingy just because the battery crapped out. And what would drive the psu manufacturers to build something of this nature? After all, you get the same functionality with a UPS which is both affordable and easily exchanged if it starts crapping out on you. As for the noise, I don't know what you are talking about. I have 4 UPS's going in my computer room and the noisiest of them only emits a low fan noise when it's supplying power. As Zero82z, says, you do lose a little efficiency but I'll gladly give a little up there as a trade-off for spike and brownout protection for my computers.

    I just don't see the market for this personally. If you want the ability to run on batteries, buy a laptop. They have what you want already built into them.

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