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Thread: Low Carbon PC?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by madmat View Post
    Yes but here's the deal. If the "experts" (and there is no such thing as an expert, X is an unknown factor and a spurt is a shot in the dark) had their way then there would be little to no governmental monies spent on finding ways of lowering emissions and the research into global warming would be funded by alternate means along with the funding for R&D into greener modes of living.

    Instead we'd continue to use gross polluting methods and continue to manufacture products that don't even attempt to minimize their energy consumption. Factor into this the issue of our current gross consumerism and love of excess and the potential for failure is even higher.

    We have to be greener not just for the sake of the planet but for the sake of society as a whole. What's going to happen when you have to walk everywhere? When you have no electricity to keep your home lit, your food from spoiling and yourself warm in the winter and cool in the summer how will you get by? If we don't invest in greener products we won't have time to transition from our dependence on high carbon energy to low to zero carbon energy without going into a state of limited to zero energy production.

    Is big business going to invest in greener products if it doesn't have to? No because all they care about is profit. Don't believe me? Look at the thousands of jobs that have been cut not because the businesses were into a loss but because the profits weren't as high as they could be... They'd rather ruin the lives of the people that enabled them to even exist as a corporate entity than show less profit, what would lead anyone to believe that they'd try to make more efficient products when it's going to cost more to produce the product? They won't, it runs entirely contrary to how businesses work. They don't invest in anything that won't see a return.

    If we can make more efficient products that lower their carbon footprint by using less energy then we may be able to extend the deadline for when we have low to zero energy and make a less painful transition into lower carbon or zero carbon energy sources.

    So, even if we're not making the world warmer (and by no means do I even think that's the case) we're still polluting it and expending our resources like there's no tomorrow and it has to change. Whether it's by taxing people that buy large 454 powered gross polluting vehicles to fining industries that won't invest in lowering their ecological impact to levying things like congestion taxes to force people into using mass transit the governments have to step in and force change. Me, personally, I'm all about anarchy so I don't care if the society falls apart, it's happening anyway, but I do like having food that won't spoil overnight. I do like keeping my frail little body warm in the winter and below 95 degrees F in the summer. Not to mention the niceties of running water, clean clothes and other luxuries that I can't have if the egocentric assholes that think that the world is without limits get their way. So, no I'm not opposed to buying screw-in fluorescent bulbs or even LED bulbs nor am I opposed to having to pay a toll of sorts to go into an urban area nor am I opposed to my tax dollars being spent on funding development of cheap alternative energy. Id rather have a Mr. Fusion powering my car or home than have no car at all or be sitting in the dark looking at a darkened monitor.
    I don't think anyone is going to argue your points, Matt. I won't. But there's something a little disturbing in the idea that because someone doesn't believe that global warming is caused by man that they must not be environmental at all. There ARE environmentalist and conservationists out there that do whatever it takes to make the Earth a better place and yet don't believe humanity caused global warming. Despite what TV tells us, the world isn't full of extremists and conspiracy theorists. Yes, the corporate machine is typically more concerned with profits than the environment and yes, there should be more government incentives and tax breaks for companies to be green. But that's a whole other topic. I believe that too many people take advantage of the Earth and can't even think of the fate of the world past their own death. But the way you make it sound, there are people out there that are intentionally perpetuating non-ecological practices. I don't think that because someone says "man doesn't cause global warming" or there's the very good argument that the warminig and cooling is cyclic, but I haven't heard any of them flat out say, stop by environmentalists because global warming doesn't exist.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrWicked1968 View Post
    too late, I've already bought a 1983 K10 blazer with the 454 V8 and cut out the catalytic converter.

    /mocking sarcasm
    Heh, I resemble that remark.

    Well, mine's an '86 decommed White Sands patrol Suburban with a very non-civilian 454HO (I had it dyno'd; 498HP at the rear wheels), TH400 and 4.10 posi. No cats, no crossover, exhaust manifolds that look more like actual headers than the pitiful lumps of cast iron civilian versions came with. The military made this thing a beast.

    What does it all mean to me? It sits in the backyard until we *really* need it. $3.50/gallon and 4MPG means that it does that by necessity.

    -Adam
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonnyGURU View Post
    I don't think anyone is going to argue your points, Matt. I won't. But there's something a little disturbing in the idea that because someone doesn't believe that global warming is caused by man that they must not be environmental at all. There ARE environmentalist and conservationists out there that do whatever it takes to make the Earth a better place and yet don't believe humanity caused global warming. Despite what TV tells us, the world isn't full of extremists and conspiracy theorists. Yes, the corporate machine is typically more concerned with profits than the environment and yes, there should be more government incentives and tax breaks for companies to be green. But that's a whole other topic. I believe that too many people take advantage of the Earth and can't even think of the fate of the world past their own death. But the way you make it sound, there are people out there that are intentionally perpetuating non-ecological practices. I don't think that because someone says "man doesn't cause global warming" or there's the very good argument that the warminig and cooling is cyclic, but I haven't heard any of them flat out say, stop by environmentalists because global warming doesn't exist.
    No, they're not wanting to stop the environmentalists, they're trying to stop the U.N. and governments from funding green initiatives with public monies. Close enough.

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    "public monies" = taxpayer dollars, and I'm completely against the UN having any say over any aspect of the US economy (among other things).

    I have no problem with green initiatives, I'm all for greater efficiency and cost-effective alternatives to fossil fuels. I also believe that the private sector is better equipped to bring about these technological changes than a bunch of pontificating politicians in Washington, D.C.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silk_the_Absent1 View Post
    Heh, I resemble that remark.

    Well, mine's an '86 decommed White Sands patrol Suburban with a very non-civilian 454HO (I had it dyno'd; 498HP at the rear wheels), TH400 and 4.10 posi. No cats, no crossover, exhaust manifolds that look more like actual headers than the pitiful lumps of cast iron civilian versions came with. The military made this thing a beast.

    What does it all mean to me? It sits in the backyard until we *really* need it. $3.50/gallon and 4MPG means that it does that by necessity.

    -Adam
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    We went to SoCal this past July. Been going every Summer for the past 4 years (this was our 5th time), so we knew that gas was going to be expensive, but this year it was ridiculous. We went out in my mother's '07 Honda Pilot (love that thing), and it gets about 20MPG on the highway up here in NM, at about a mile elevation. At sea level it gets about 23-24. Going through the Mohave, you really want to avoid having to buy gas, and for a good reason; I saw some truck stops that were running more than $5.50 while going through there.

    The first year we went, gas cost us about $250 total (we were in our old 2004 Escape, which got about the same economy), this year it was a little over $500.

    -Adam
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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by madmat View Post
    No, they're not wanting to stop the environmentalists, they're trying to stop the U.N. and governments from funding green initiatives with public monies. Close enough.
    Ahh... The Kyoto Protocol. Well, I can kind of see BOTH SIDES of the argument on this one. I'm on the fence myself.

    Obviously, we should ALL take a stake in cleaning up the environment because whatever polution China, for example, creates and is currently floating over China isn't necessarily going to stay over China and certainly affects more than China. So in a sense, you want to "clean up other people's mess because it effects me." I pick up after my wife because I don't want to step on her shit. On the other hand, I have my own shit to deal with, why should I take my time out to pick up your shit?

    Since countries like India and China are considered "developing" as opposed to the U.S. that is "developed", there's a lack of proportion to the funds being used by one country to clean up the mess of another. Because they are "developing" they lack the infrastructure to enforce any kind of environmental restrictions on themselves. Sure, like I said, the mess of another has an effect on everyone else, but the U.N. should have simplified the budget of the treaty to have countries pay based on population or percentage of industrialization and then assess penalties for lack of environmental precautions already in place (like lack of emmisions safeguards at factories, etc.)

    It boils down to countries with money coming to the aid of those who don't (but I think you're kidding yourself if you think China doesn't have any money, or even the money to do some cleaning up. Just look at what they did with the olympics. Instead of everyone "chipping in" to clean up the world, we should impose sanctions, penalties, tarrifs, taxes, etc. on those who don't want to clean up their act. Create a greater economic impact on them by NOT cleaning up than what it would cost them to clean up themselves.

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