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Thread: PSU binning a thing?

  1. #11
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    I agree and suspect that leaded solder may be better at handling thermal cycling than unleaded.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mdk777 View Post
    Well, this a paradox on many components...thermal cycling is actually more damaging than running "warm" at a continuous level.
    GPU and CPU fans are now set to warm up the part and keep warm rather than keep really cool all the time with only getting to "warm" when under heavy load.

    Just saying, water cooling zealots may actually be reducing the core components lifespan.

    VMR on the MB can actually overheat in super quite systems with really low air flow... If the CPU and the GPU are the only temps you are looking at.

    Just saying, unintended consequences do occur.
    I've always wondered how people who water cool there gpu cores keep the vram cool or people who water cool cpu and gpu keep drives and motherboard cool, with no fans. Water-cooling just dosnt seem worth it because you still have to have case fans, unless your into exreame overlclocks but unless your getting the best compoenets you might as well use the water cooler funds to get a better gpu or cpu than getting an infirrior one with better cooling/oc headroom. I never knew keeping components too cold was so bad, and how sensitive are psus to heat and cold? I know a PSU can't get nearly as hot as a cpu or gpu ship, 40c seems normal for entry level psus on there limit to give full power, which surprised me beacause im used to seeing numbers like 70 and 80c for other componets. And if a PSU gets too hot what happens? Does it throttle?

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    How important is a heatsink on a bridge rectifier, whatever that means. And I would would assume different caps are used in higher quality psus which is why they have longer warranty's, that's probably the biggest difference in build quality beacause I would think caps would be the first thing to die in a PSU.

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    "I never knew keeping components too cold was so bad"

    Again, it is not the temp, but the change in temp.

    GPU now are often now allowed to run at 60c or more. The fans are turned off at idle to keep this temp.
    If you could keep the GPU at 20 or 30 C all the time.....it would not be "bad".

    However, constantly ramping from 30 to 60 and then back down to 30 is "worse" than just allowing it to stay at something like 60c all the time.

    Everything is relative.

    Consumers often replace computers long before any real failures.

    Microsoft just ran a server farm experiment. They placed a server farm on the bottom of the ocean.
    Yes, the cold water was a benefit in keeping the components cold.
    However, the lack of variation, the lack of vibration, the lack of change in the air circulation in the closed system,the lack of oxygen, and the lack of human mechanical vibrations is what they attributed the low failure rate.

    IT is an endless rabbit hole of inquiry that will not be covered adequately here. I was just sharing my appreciation of the irony of counterintuitive unintended consequences.

    RE: PSU

    Yes, a lack of all air flow to the PSU will cause major issues.
    My Case has a PSU shroud, but does have a vent bellow and plenty of air flow from the front, below the shroud.
    I would not get a fanless unit for my case regardless of the wonderful warranty that Seasonic and other supply.

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    They also used dry nitrogen, so the lack of corrosion might have been a big factor. I have fixed a lot of contacts with silicone oil.
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Quote Originally Posted by PC6777 View Post
    How important is a heatsink on a bridge rectifier, whatever that means. And I would would assume different caps are used in higher quality psus which is why they have longer warranty's, that's probably the biggest difference in build quality beacause I would think caps would be the first thing to die in a PSU.
    While caps are the second thing to die in a PSU (first being the fan if the PSU is in constant use and not kept on a shelf for years, then it IS the caps that die first), they're far from expensive and certainly NOT the most expensive part inside a PSU. And when a PSU fails prematurely, it's RARELY because of a capacitor.

    To give you an idea.... To go from VS to CV, white to Bronze, not a single capacitor was touched. What DID have to change is two PWM MOSFETs, one PFC diode, and addition Schottky diode on the +12V output and lower resistance windings on the output choke.

    Cost adders can be things like using Infineon MOSFETs instead of Vishay. USing sendust cores in your coils instead of iron powder, etc.

    I've had projects start out thinking they're going to cost one thing, and then as you go through EVT, you end up adding as much as $5. Some times changes are being made to the BOM as late as PVT as you start to see corner case failures. But people don't realize this minutia involved. That's why things like "tier lists" piss me off, and no review can catch corner cases like a complete development cycle can and why I'm always saying "PSUs are a lot more than a box of capacitors."
    Last edited by Jon Gerow; 09-16-2020 at 01:27 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Gerow View Post
    USing sendust cores in your coils instead of iron powder, etc.

    Can you give a quick rundown of the advantages of sendust to iron powder

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    Quote Originally Posted by ashiekh View Post
    Can you give a quick rundown of the advantages of sendust to iron powder
    http://www.coilws.com/index.php?main_page=page&id=41

    For me, it's this reason:

    Low magnetostriction coefficient, low audible noise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Gerow View Post
    http://www.coilws.com/index.php?main_page=page&id=41

    For me, it's this reason:

    Low magnetostriction coefficient, low audible noise.

    Less heat produced?

    I still need to understand the air gaps.

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    makes sense, its about large fluctuations not being too cold.

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