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Thread: Yate Loon D12SM-12 vs Hong Hua ha1225m12f-z

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    Default Yate Loon D12SM-12 vs Hong Hua ha1225m12f-z

    Hi,

    I would like to know How do these two fans compare with each other.
    I can't find any information about this Hong Hua fan on their website, neither could i find the CFM and static pressure figures of this fan. Does anyone have it? (Perhaps Jonny himself knows It?)

    Another question i have is: Is the yate Loon fan a sleeve bearing fan or rifle bearing fan? I Saw conflicting info about this. Yate Loon says it's sleeve bearing and some reviews i read said it's rifle. Which one is right?

    Since i'm already opening a thread, i also would like to know if there's a big difference between the Hong Hua "H" model to the "M" model and also the performance difference between the "M" model and the "H" model from yate Loon. I see these being uses quite often and wanted to know if the real world performance os noticeable.

    Last question: what about the D14SH-12 140mm fan from Yate Loon? Is there a big difference in performance between the 120mm high airflow models (with the letter "H") mentioned above and this high airflow 140mm model in the real world?

    Thanks for the help!

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    The YL is sleeve.

    The Hong Hua is rifle bearing. That's what the "F" means. Sleeve would be "S".

    The "M" represents the power of the fan. It's a lower RPM than "H" and higher than "L" (it's "high", "medium" and "low").

    I've never tested an "M". Corsair always uses the "H" version. I believe the difference is 2200 max RPM vs. 2050 RPM.

    "M" is typically used instead of "H" because of a lower start up voltage/RPM without audible motor noise (less voltage through more windings often causes a buzzing noise) if the customer doesn't want to spend the extra money on a better hall sensor IC (like the MLX 90287).
    Last edited by Jon Gerow; 07-07-2019 at 09:00 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Gerow View Post
    The YL is sleeve.

    The Hong Hua is rifle bearing. That's what the "F" means. Sleeve would be "S".

    The "M" represents the power of the fan. It's a lower RPM than "H" and higher than "L".

    I've never tested an "M". Corsair always uses the "H" version. I believe the difference is 2200 max RPM vs. 2050 RPM.

    "M" is typically used instead of "H" because of a lower start up voltage/RPM without audible motor noise (less voltage through more windings often causes a buzzing noise) if the customer doesn't want to spend the extra money on a better hall sensor IC (like the MLX 90287).
    Hi, Jon! Thanks for answering!

    I have seen reviews saying yate Loons are rifle. Not sure I can post the articule, but here It goes:
    https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews...su,5678-3.html

    I thought i had seen somewhere Someone saying Corsair can buy a better bearing and ask yate Loon to use that bearing on their fans, making It a rifle bearing for example.

    Do you have the specs i asked for the Hong Hua fans? (CFM and static pressure)

    Do you like them better than Y.L in terms of performance? I assume they would be your choice of longevity because they use rifle.

    What about the D14SH-12? Do you think they are much better than the D12SH-12? I kind of not believe they push 140 cfm, that sounds like too much for a 140mm fan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pinho2288 View Post
    Hi, Jon! Thanks for answering!

    I have seen reviews saying yate Loons are rifle. Not sure I can post the articule, but here It goes:
    https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews...su,5678-3.html
    External linking is allowed.

    But you just linked a review stating a Hong Hua fan was rifle... which is correct.

    Hong Hua doesn't make sleeve bearing fans anymore (at least they haven't in the last five years).

    That PSU doesn't use YL.

    If you want to know a Corsair PSU that does use a YL, that's the VS. And that one IS a sleeve.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pinho2288 View Post
    Do you have the specs i asked for the Hong Hua fans? (CFM and static pressure)
    Like I said, I've never tested an M series Hong Hua so I don't have the PQ. The data sheets from HH don't have PQ, so we have to test them in house to get that info.

    Quote Originally Posted by pinho2288 View Post
    Do you like them better than Y.L in terms of performance? I assume they would be your choice of longevity because they use rifle.
    That's like asking me if I like peanut butter better than Vegemite. YES... Hong Hua is MUCH better than YL in terms of build quality and QC (like impeller balancing).

    Quote Originally Posted by pinho2288 View Post
    What about the D14SH-12? Do you think they are much better than the D12SH-12? I kind of not believe they push 140 cfm, that sounds like too much for a 140mm fan.
    The "12" vs. the "14" in those part numbers do not refer to CFM. One is 120mm and the other is 140mm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Gerow View Post
    External linking is allowed.

    But you just linked a review stating a Hong Hua fan was rifle... which is correct.

    Hong Hua doesn't make sleeve bearing fans anymore (at least they haven't in the last five years).

    That PSU doesn't use YL.

    If you want to know a Corsair PSU that does use a YL, that's the VS. And that one IS a sleeve.
    linked you to a Review of two cx 450 models, one made by great wall and the othet by cwt. The component breakdown of the cx 450 made by great wall says:
    Yate Loon D12SM-12 (120mm, 12V, 0.30A, 1700 RPM, 72CFM, 34 dB(A), rifle bearing)
    That's why i was confused, but i guess It was Just an error made by the reviewer

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Gerow View Post
    Like I said, I've never tested an M series Hong Hua so I don't have the PQ. The data sheets from HH don't have PQ, so we have to test them in house to get that info.



    That's like asking me if I like peanut butter better than Vegemite. YES... Hong Hua is MUCH better than YL in terms of build quality and QC (like impeller balancing).



    The "12" vs. the "14" in those part numbers do not refer to CFM. One is 120mm and the other is 140mm.
    Ok, so Hong Hua is much better! That's what i was looking for! Thank you!

    As for the last parte about the 120mm vs 140mm, my question was about their ratings. Y.L claims their 120mm "H" model does 88 CFM while their 140mm "H" does 140 CFM, which i'm hesitant to believe because that sounds like a lot. Do you have personal experience with these two fans models? is the real world difference in performance that much? I think i have seen some Corsair psu that uses this 140mm Variant, but i could be wrong since i have been Reading many psu reviews lately.

    Can you Tell me what is "PQ"? I didn't get It.

    As always thank you for the answers and Sorry for the Double post, couldn't find a way to erase the First post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pinho2288 View Post
    Ok, so Hong Hua is much better! That's what i was looking for! Thank you!
    I wish we never had to use YL fans. But they are SOOOOOOO MUUUUUUCH cheaper than Hong Hua that they keep showing up.

    Quote Originally Posted by pinho2288 View Post
    As for the last parte about the 120mm vs 140mm, my question was about their ratings. Y.L claims their 120mm "H" model does 88 CFM while their 140mm "H" does 140 CFM, which i'm hesitant to believe because that sounds like a lot.
    There is no way in hell their fan moves 140 CFM. It would have to be spinning at least 3000 RPM and would sound like a jet engine.

    Quote Originally Posted by pinho2288 View Post
    Can you Tell me what is "PQ"? I didn't get It.
    Oh.. That's how you measure fan performance. CFM is air flow, but that means nothing without knowing static pressure. Some people will argue "well, this fan moves 60 CFM at 2000 RPM and is only 18dBA so it must be good", but that's ignorant because that's only part of the picture. CFM alone is NOT the only aspect of a fan's performance as it only tells you how much air it moves in open air, but with no static pressure. If you're pushing air into a PSU, radiator, a crowded PC, etc., there is "back pressure", so a fan's static pressure is necessary to know. So you use a PQ curve. It plots the CFM and pressure values along a graph so you know how the fan performs in REAL WORLD usage. Once you know how this works, you realize that 99% of fan reviews and marketing are utter bullshit. Because you can have a fan with low RPM, low noise, high CFM and it looks good on paper. But if it has a low mH2O, it's about as useless as a pinwheel.

    At Corsair, we use a special machine to do this measurement. A great write up can be found on their blog here: https://www.corsair.com/us/en/blog/c...gy-and-testing


    Quote Originally Posted by pinho2288 View Post
    As always thank you for the answers and Sorry for the Double post, couldn't find a way to erase the First post.
    Fixed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Gerow View Post
    I wish we never had to use YL fans. But they are SOOOOOOO MUUUUUUCH cheaper than Hong Hua that they keep showing up.



    There is no way in hell their fan moves 140 CFM. It would have to be spinning at least 3000 RPM and would sound like a jet engine.



    Oh.. That's how you measure fan performance. CFM is air flow, but that means nothing without knowing static pressure. Some people will argue "well, this fan moves 60 CFM at 2000 RPM and is only 18dBA so it must be good", but that's ignorant because that's only part of the picture. CFM alone is NOT the only aspect of a fan's performance as it only tells you how much air it moves in open air, but with no static pressure. If you're pushing air into a PSU, radiator, a crowded PC, etc., there is "back pressure", so a fan's static pressure is necessary to know. So you use a PQ curve. It plots the CFM and pressure values along a graph so you know how the fan performs in REAL WORLD usage. Once you know how this works, you realize that 99% of fan reviews and marketing are utter bullshit. Because you can have a fan with low RPM, low noise, high CFM and it looks good on paper. But if it has a low mH2O, it's about as useless as a pinwheel.

    At Corsair, we use a special machine to do this measurement. A great write up can be found on their blog here: https://www.corsair.com/us/en/blog/c...gy-and-testing




    Fixed.
    That's actually nice to know, i didn't imagine they were considerably cheaper compared to Hong Hua, i imagined Corsair used both to avoid supply shortages or just becoming too dependant on one supplier.

    Yeah, even case fans that are in front of a simple dust filter need to have some static pressure to perform well. I learned that the hard way after i bought some 200mm fans for my case, they move high CFM amounts but the static pressure is too low even for a dust filter.

    But I think the worst part on the fan industry is the marketing trying to confuse consumers by hiding a fan that it's sleeve bearing with other names they create. Without mentioning most fan manufacturers lie about the CFM and static pressure numbers which makes even harder for the consumer to find the right fan.

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    Ya... Proper fan reviews are like proper PSU reviews. You have to have the right equipment. Otherwise, someone that knows better is just going to think you're dumber than a box of rocks.

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