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Thread: Smaller PSU in the future?

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    Default Smaller PSU in the future?

    Hi everyone,
    I read this article about smartphone and notebooks charger:
    https://www.theverge.com/circuitbrea...1-ravpower-45w

    I was wonderin if it can be applied to normal PC PSU too. Maybe it's a good start to make smaller PSU, and then smaller case

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    Like a SFX or picoPSU?

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    Yeah, right now theiyare an exception, with that technology is it possible to make it a standard?

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    SFX is already a standard for quite some time.

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    it's a standard, but how many SFX PSU there are? If I look at most manufacteur they usually have just 1 SFX PSU, and everything else ATX.
    Do you think that with this new technlogy in the future it will be the opposite? 1 ATX (for 700W or more) and everything else with SFX?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ansem1 View Post
    I was wonderin if it can be applied to normal PC PSU too. Maybe it's a good start to make smaller PSU, and then smaller case
    Gan already has.

    The AX1600i is 20mm smaller while putting out 100W more and even more efficient than it's predecessor, the AX1500i, because of its GaN front end.

    The actual GaN components are up to 40% smaller than Si parts. And the switching frequencies are higher, which means that other components down the line, like transformers, can also be smaller.

    The problem with GaN components right now is their cost.

    That's why Corsair chose to kick off using it in 1600W PSU instead of something smaller. The ASP is so high that you could shift some of your profit to the GaN and still make a few bucks.

    In lower wattages, like 45W or 60W, it's not a big price jump. But if you're trying to output 500W, 600W, etc., it costs a lot more to use GaN.

    At Corsair, we've proven to ourselves that we can make an 850W SFX PSU using GaN, but it would be almost useless. It would cost 50% more, not have enough room to give it all the cables that would be appropriate for an 850W PSU and due to the limited size for a proper bulk cap, could not have 16ms hold up time @ 80% load.

    So that's out the window.

    But don't expect the high cost to last forever. GaN is "supposed to be" cheaper than Si parts. Problem is there's limited volume. That should change with companies like Ti and Siemens joining the smaller companies like Transphorm, GaN Solutions and Exagan jump into the market and push out "developer kits" to show how to leverage GaN circuits into PSUs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jonnyGURU View Post
    Gan already has.

    The AX1600i is 20mm smaller while putting out 100W more and even more efficient than it's predecessor, the AX1500i, because of its GaN front end.

    The actual GaN components are up to 40% smaller than Si parts. And the switching frequencies are higher, which means that other components down the line, like transformers, can also be smaller.

    The problem with GaN components right now is their cost.

    That's why Corsair chose to kick off using it in 1600W PSU instead of something smaller. The ASP is so high that you could shift some of your profit to the GaN and still make a few bucks.

    In lower wattages, like 45W or 60W, it's not a big price jump. But if you're trying to output 500W, 600W, etc., it costs a lot more to use GaN.

    At Corsair, we've proven to ourselves that we can make an 850W SFX PSU using GaN, but it would be almost useless. It would cost 50% more, not have enough room to give it all the cables that would be appropriate for an 850W PSU and due to the limited size for a proper bulk cap, could not have 16ms hold up time @ 80% load.

    So that's out the window.

    But don't expect the high cost to last forever. GaN is "supposed to be" cheaper than Si parts. Problem is there's limited volume. That should change with companies like Ti and Siemens joining the smaller companies like Transphorm, GaN Solutions and Exagan jump into the market and push out "developer kits" to show how to leverage GaN circuits into PSUs.
    Thanks for the great answer! I hope GaN price will go down.

    P.S. "At Corsair, we've proven to ourselves..." does it mean that you're working/have worked for Corsair?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ansem1 View Post
    it's a standard, but how many SFX PSU there are? If I look at most manufacteur they usually have just 1 SFX PSU, and everything else ATX.
    Do you think that with this new technlogy in the future it will be the opposite? 1 ATX (for 700W or more) and everything else with SFX?
    Here in the Netherlands you can choose between 40 different SFX power supplies, from crappy stuff from LC-Power and Spire till a Corsair SF750.

    I actually can't think of a scenario where someone actually needs something else, that none of those 40 SFX power supplies is the right choice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by -The_Mask- View Post
    Here in the Netherlands you can choose between 40 different SFX power supplies, from crappy stuff from LC-Power and Spire till a Corsair SF750.

    I actually can't think of a scenario where someone actually needs something else, that none of those 40 SFX power supplies is the right choice.
    And between how many ATX power supplies can you choose?

    Different price, different features, ecc.
    corsair has 18 ATX models and 2 SFX;
    be quiet has 5 ATX models and 1 SFX;
    Antec doesn't seems to have SFX at all;

    Why can't it be the opposite? Ore at least more balanced? I would like to make smaller computer, but the ATX PSU alone is huge, and SFX are hard to find if you want the best.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ansem1 View Post
    And between how many ATX power supplies can you choose?
    A lot more, but 99% of the ATX power supplies aren't interesting for anyone. They just exist waiting on the shelf to be bought by someone who doesn't have a clue. With SFX power supplies that isn't the case.

    Different price, different features, ecc.
    corsair has 18 ATX models and 2 SFX;
    be quiet has 5 ATX models and 1 SFX;
    Antec doesn't seems to have SFX at all;
    Corsair has 5 different SFX power supplies and be quiet! has 4. Antec indeed doesn't have anything, but that's because they stopped selling interesting power supplies all together. I don't expect Antec is gonna release anything interesting soon and all their older interesting series are EOL. It's likely the quit the PSU business all together in the future, if something doesn't change.

    Why can't it be the opposite? Ore at least more balanced? I would like to make smaller computer, but the ATX PSU alone is huge, and SFX are hard to find if you want the best.
    Corsair SF series is great and can easily compete with many high end ATX power supplies.

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