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Thread: i5-8600K or a Ryzen 5 CPU for a planned gaming rig

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    Quote Originally Posted by Batboy88 View Post
    8600k is probably nice I imagine.
    Right now the 8600k is around 286€ in Germany, that is the region of the Ryzen 7 2700...

    Quote Originally Posted by Batboy88 View Post
    This chip is still doing well...I think the best relid and seat shaved some off the bottom of the Lid and EK's stuff and Block, Real nice under 80c stuff at 5ghz and the gpu man.
    Ähm, that's something the CPU Manufacturer should have been doing....
    I'd rather not recommend voiding the warranty of the CPU and modify it...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Payne View Post
    Right now the 8600k is around 286€ in Germany, that is the region of the Ryzen 7 2700...


    Ähm, that's something the CPU Manufacturer should have been doing....
    I'd rather not recommend voiding the warranty of the CPU and modify it...

    Well yeah probably, but you won't have a choice on that chip. It's going to start running 90c+ because of it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nater514520 View Post
    I was actually considering Ryzen for the reason that AM4 will be supported for much longer than Intel’s LGA1151
    As an actual 2700X owner:

    Gaming in 1080p? Intel

    Gaming in 1440p? Still Intel but AMD is ok

    Gaming in 4k? whatever

    Streaming? Check Gamer Nexus's comparison but prob AMD 2700X rather than 8600/9600

    "AM4 will be supported for much longer" sure, but on Intel you get IPC of an next gen ryzen now. Also I don't believe that ZEN 2 will get into 5GHz territory. Furthermore Intel is more set and forget. AMD is a constant struggle. My crosshair VII hero got a bios update that made me unable to use my PC for like 2 weeks before they've fixed it. High RAM speeds are also more easily obtainable on Intel's platform.

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    MD is a constant struggle. My crosshair VII hero got a bios update that made me unable to use my PC for like 2 weeks before they've fixed it
    That's more of Asus issue rather than AMD issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rafal_iB_PL View Post
    That's more of Asus issue rather than AMD issue.
    True, but Ryzen is a bit of a more challenging platform from what I've read and from my experience. That is if you tinker with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VnnAmed View Post
    True, but Ryzen is a bit of a more challenging platform from what I've read and from my experience. That is if you tinker with it.
    No, its not.
    From my Experience and what I've read and heard from System Integrators. They said that X99 was way worse (and some say still is) than AMD AM4. And that AM4 was pretty good for a completely new plattform...

    You just got a bad, expensive Board that doesn't work too well...


    Quote Originally Posted by VnnAmed View Post
    High RAM speeds are also more easily obtainable on Intel's platform.
    ...because RAM is made for Intel, not AMD. And XMP is something specified by Intel. Wich is why some manufacturers (like ASUS) have some kind of XMP Translation thingy implemented for example the ASUS DOCP thing...

    There are some differences in timing and other stuff that differentiate the two...
    And nobody really makes "AMD Memory". Well, you could argue about Samsung B-Die...
    And there is no AMD version of XMP either...

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    Quote Originally Posted by VnnAmed View Post
    "AM4 will be supported for much longer" sure, but on Intel you get IPC of an next gen ryzen now.
    IPC isn't really that much different, both are about equal here.

    Intel uses higher clockrates and higher power consumptions...
    Quote Originally Posted by VnnAmed View Post
    Also I don't believe that ZEN 2 will get into 5GHz territory.
    Ryzen already boosts up to 4,3GHz in the form of the 2700x.
    5GHz is a mere 15% more. To assume that that won't be possible with a huge die shrink is absurd.
    The difference betwenn 14nm and 12nm was already similar...

    The 1700x is specified for up to 3,8GHz
    The 2700x is specified for up to 4,3GHz

    Difference is 13%

    And that's just an improved 14nm process!
    You might argue with the 1800x wich lowers the difference to 7,5%...

    Quote Originally Posted by VnnAmed View Post
    Furthermore Intel is more set and forget. AMD is a constant struggle.
    Sorry, but that's just bullshit or an outright lie and just not true.

    If you talk with people owning X99 systems, they will tell you differently.
    Also you have to use the DIMM Slots in order in x79 systems, if you use a wrong slot -> no post.
    And there are other issues as well. So this statement is just not true, if you choose your components carefully - wich you should anyway.

    I can talk about myself with my Biostar X370GT7 and Kingston DDR4-2400 and the Ryzen 7-1700x. I put it together and it worked.
    Same when the Board died (probably because the SSD killed it) and it got replaced by an ASUS X370-F Strix. Put together, worked. No issues.
    Same with MSI B450I wich I got because I wanted an ITX gaming System, put it together and it worked...

    My 2400G should arrive tomorrow - with DDR4-3200 Memory (the cheapest I got, Patriot Viper 4 red). But I don't see a reason why that should be an issue...
    Quote Originally Posted by VnnAmed View Post
    My crosshair VII hero got a bios update that made me unable to use my PC for like 2 weeks before they've fixed it.
    How is that an AMD Issue?!
    How can you blame AMD for ASUS messing up a BIOS Update?!

    But here you show the Problem with AMD.
    If someone messes something up and AMD is in the System -> AMD at fault.
    If someone messes something up and Intel is in the system -> the one who messed it up is at fault...

    Someone told me about a Gigabyte X99 Board that will only work with DDR4-2133 (or was it 2400) memory with 4GiB in a certain slot. If not -> dead.
    Would you blame Intel for that? Probably not. I wouldn't either...
    Because the manufacturer of the component is at fault, not the CPU or Chipset manufacturer...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Payne View Post
    No, its not.
    From my Experience and what I've read and heard from System Integrators. They said that X99 was way worse (and some say still is) than AMD AM4. And that AM4 was pretty good for a completely new plattform...

    You just got a bad, expensive Board that doesn't work too well...



    ...because RAM is made for Intel, not AMD. And XMP is something specified by Intel. Wich is why some manufacturers (like ASUS) have some kind of XMP Translation thingy implemented for example the ASUS DOCP thing...

    There are some differences in timing and other stuff that differentiate the two...
    And nobody really makes "AMD Memory". Well, you could argue about Samsung B-Die...
    And there is no AMD version of XMP either...
    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Payne View Post
    IPC isn't really that much different, both are about equal here.

    Intel uses higher clockrates and higher power consumptions...

    Ryzen already boosts up to 4,3GHz in the form of the 2700x.
    5GHz is a mere 15% more. To assume that that won't be possible with a huge die shrink is absurd.
    The difference betwenn 14nm and 12nm was already similar...

    The 1700x is specified for up to 3,8GHz
    The 2700x is specified for up to 4,3GHz

    Difference is 13%

    And that's just an improved 14nm process!
    You might argue with the 1800x wich lowers the difference to 7,5%...


    Sorry, but that's just bullshit or an outright lie and just not true.

    If you talk with people owning X99 systems, they will tell you differently.
    Also you have to use the DIMM Slots in order in x79 systems, if you use a wrong slot -> no post.
    And there are other issues as well. So this statement is just not true, if you choose your components carefully - wich you should anyway.

    I can talk about myself with my Biostar X370GT7 and Kingston DDR4-2400 and the Ryzen 7-1700x. I put it together and it worked.
    Same when the Board died (probably because the SSD killed it) and it got replaced by an ASUS X370-F Strix. Put together, worked. No issues.
    Same with MSI B450I wich I got because I wanted an ITX gaming System, put it together and it worked...

    My 2400G should arrive tomorrow - with DDR4-3200 Memory (the cheapest I got, Patriot Viper 4 red). But I don't see a reason why that should be an issue...

    How is that an AMD Issue?!
    How can you blame AMD for ASUS messing up a BIOS Update?!

    But here you show the Problem with AMD.
    If someone messes something up and AMD is in the System -> AMD at fault.
    If someone messes something up and Intel is in the system -> the one who messed it up is at fault...

    Someone told me about a Gigabyte X99 Board that will only work with DDR4-2133 (or was it 2400) memory with 4GiB in a certain slot. If not -> dead.
    Would you blame Intel for that? Probably not. I wouldn't either...
    Because the manufacturer of the component is at fault, not the CPU or Chipset manufacturer...
    You've got really worked up, anyway, back to the topic. Like I've already said if someone were to buy a system now I think Intel might still have an advantage in some places like for example the XMP profiles and gaming in 1080p where intel can massively pull ahead. Will zen 2 get to 5GHz? Well it may boost to that point yes, but AFAIK it's a single core boosting temporarily with a huge voltage spike - not a stable OC. In my opinion it's not wise to recommend hardware based on guesses and estimates, but rather on the current market standings. Was X99 a troubled platform? I wouldn't know I was dirt poor when these systems released so I didn't test/read about them. Not sure how that is relevant. All that I know is that the Z370 is a good platform that will offer a "1 click 4.8/5.0 OC" button and better performance in games, unless u game in high resolutions where you're limited by tour GPU.

    Also

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Payne View Post
    You just got a bad, expensive Board that doesn't work too well...
    Not sure where that came from. The VRM/settings/board design are really top notch. They've just overdone the 0702 BIOS so that it scored insanely big numbers but wasn't stable for me. Which is not AMD's fault mind you, but it has to do with Ryzen being a new platform in my opinion.

    BUT, like I've also said, AMD is a good platform, especially for streaming/4k gaming because it's a lot cheaper right now and pulls ahead of Intel in streaming/stays even in 4k. So let's hope that the 3700X does the 5GHz at 1.2v, i might get one too

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    Quote Originally Posted by VnnAmed View Post
    Like I've already said if someone were to buy a system now I think Intel might still have an advantage in some places
    That might be but its not Stability, that is nonsense.

    Quote Originally Posted by VnnAmed View Post
    Will zen 2 get to 5GHz? Well it may boost to that point yes, but AFAIK it's a single core boosting temporarily with a huge voltage spike - not a stable OC.
    We are talking about only an increase of 13,5% or something like that. So yeah to expect it makes sense.
    The jump from 65nm to 45nm was around 28% in the beginning. Later almost 50%.
    (Clockrate, Phenom 9950BE vs 955BE and later 980BE)

    The differences is huge!
    Look at that!
    http://www.tsmc.com/english/dedicate...nology/7nm.htm

    And TSMC is only talking about its 10nm Process, not the 14nm!
    And even there 1.6x Logic Density, 20% Speed Improvement and 40% Power Reduction.
    From 16/12nm they talk about 15% faster speed and 35% lower power.

    So according to TSMC, it might be up to 35% more speed, wich translates to
    5.4GHz if we calculate with 4GHz and even 5,8GHz if we calculate from 4.3GHz.
    Theoretical of course.

    But that's what the Process would allow if Ryzen would have been 16/12nm TSMC...

    We really haven't had a real shrink in a long time though that we could use to compare things to...

    Quote Originally Posted by VnnAmed View Post
    In my opinion it's not wise to recommend hardware based on guesses and estimates, but rather on the current market standings.
    Based on what we know is that 7nm AMD will work on AM4, feature a ~13% Increase in IPC and might feature up to 35% higher clockrates (I'd rather expect something like 15-20% more). That's what we know.


    Quote Originally Posted by VnnAmed View Post
    Was X99 a troubled platform?
    Yes, from what you hear it was a big mess.
    But its Intel, so you don't hear much about it because if something is messed up with Intel, People Fix it.
    If it is messed up with AMD, People do not fix it and blame AMD.

    Quote Originally Posted by VnnAmed View Post
    All that I know is that the Z370 is a good platform
    Right now its a freaking expensive one where the 8700K is ~50% more than Ryzen 7/2700X. As said earlier...

    Quote Originally Posted by VnnAmed View Post
    that will offer a "1 click 4.8/5.0 OC" button
    no, that is not true.
    I've talked with Intel Users and they disagree with that statement. That is not viable without modifications of the CPU.

    But it also shows that you have to argue with not guaranteed operation that voids the warranty and can potentially destroy the processor as well as you need to replace the thermal interface material between Die and IHS. NOT a good thing.

    AMD comes with a Soldered Lid for its Ryzen CPUs.

    Quote Originally Posted by VnnAmed View Post
    and better performance in games, unless u game in high resolutions where you're limited by tour GPU.
    Depends on the Game and the Optimization.
    And the Price of the CPU.
    An 8700K is 420€ right now at only 2-3 Shops (Vibuonline, Compuland and Drive City are all Mindfactory, Hardwarecamp24 doesn't seem to), next one is 449€, 460€, 470€ and so on...
    And all the Recommendations are based on ~350€ for the 8700K...


    Quote Originally Posted by VnnAmed View Post
    Not sure where that came from. The VRM/settings/board design are really top notch. They've just overdone the 0702 BIOS so that it scored insanely big numbers but wasn't stable for me. Which is not AMD's fault mind you, but it has to do with Ryzen being a new platform in my opinion.
    When its fine, why then claim that Ryzen is a "more challenging Plattform", when it is not more the case then on Intel and the only difference how the user handle problems??
    And in other Forums I've seen people having bad memory that causes errors - and not RMAing the Memory because its AMD and so on...

    That's only the case if you get a 2700X with an A320 Board and an Apevia PSU and expect the DDR-4 3733MHz to run without an issue...

    That's the usual "AMD Issue"...
    Same with Athlon XP on ECS K7S5A with cheap memory and the 300W Codegen 400X PSU. While the K7S5A was a decent Board at the time, it needed decent Memory. And at the time you could get Memory that was broken and caused errors...

    On the other Hand, if you read up on the Boards and get a high quality one, a good PSU and known good Memory, there won't be any more issues than with other plattforms as well...


    Quote Originally Posted by VnnAmed View Post
    So let's hope that the 3700X does the 5GHz at 1.2v, i might get one too
    Probably because you already have a board where that CPU might run on as its probably Am4 as well...
    Not like the Intel 8000 Series that is not compatible with LGA1151 despite beeing an LGA1151 CPU

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    A big thing to keep in mind for 1080p performance in games is frame times and not frame rates. When Frame times are 10ms vs 12ms you're really hitting the edge of a perceivable difference. That's only in the 75-90FPS range, which even in today's more demanding games isn't hard to hit on a GTX 1080 / RTX 2070.



    For reference:

    8.3ms = 120 fps
    16.7ms = 60 fps
    33.3ms = 30 fps

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