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Thread: Weird PSU SATA PCIe Controller Issue

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    Unhappy Weird PSU SATA PCIe Controller Issue

    Been running a Windows 10 PC with an ASRock N3150-ITX motherboard and a Syba SI-PEX40064 SATA PCI-e x1 Controller Card for some time (3-4 months) without issues. I'm using the PCI-e controller to give me extra storage, the OS sits on an SSD using the internal motherboard controller.

    A few weeks ago I powered up the PC and noticed it froze during POST, switched it off and tried powering on again.
    This time the PSU kept repeatedly starting and immediately powering off - power led was just flicking on and off all the time.

    I could get the PC to power on normally if I removed the SATA PCI-e card - so I guessed the card was faulty.
    Amazon replaced the card, but with the replacement card the same fault reoccurred.

    So I swap out the XFX PRO 450W PSU for an old Powercool PCPC450AUBA 450W PSU I had lying around (Purchased in 2010).
    And guess what - the PC boots with the SATA card in-situ.
    Great I thought - a faulty PSU must be the culprit.

    So I order a brand new Corsair VS450 PSU, not wanting to use the old Powercool PSU.

    Plugged in the Corsair PSU and noticed two things - a very noisy fan and a very pronounced flicker on the power led when it powered on,
    but it did power on with the SATA card in-situ. Being not happy with the noisy fan and the flickering power led, I got Amazon to replace it with a Seasonic S12-II 620W PSU.

    Plugging in the Seasonic, I was amazed to see the old fault back - with the SATA card, repeated starting and immediate powering off - without the SATA card, no issues.

    In desperation I try a different SATA card, two other motherboards and PSUs!

    So in summary, this is what I have now ...

    N3150-ITX Motherboard
    N3700-ITX Motherboard
    N3150B-ITX Motherboard

    Syba SI-PEX40064 (Marvell 88SE9215) 4 port SATA PCI-e Controller Card
    Hommie (ASM1061) 2 port SATA PCI-e Controller Card

    Powercool PCPC450AUBA 450W PSU (Purchased 2010)
    SilverStone SST-ST40F-ES 400W PSU (Purchased 2011)
    XFX PRO 450W Core Edition PSU (Purchased 2013)
    Seasonic S12-II 620W PSU (Brand New)

    With all three motherboards, if I use the XFX, or Seasonic PSUs, I get the power cycle fault condition if either SATA card is present - normal operation if not. The SATA cards are installed with no cables or devices attached. The power cycling is immediate, POST is not even started, the PSU switches repeatedly off and then on again with the cycle repeating endlessly.

    Take the SATA cards out and everything is back to normal.

    If I use my old Powercool or SilverStone PSUs, I get normal operation with either of the SATA cards installed.

    The brand new Corsair VS450 PSU has been returned to Amazon due to a very noisy fan. Although it did boot the N3150-ITX and N3700-ITX systems with the Syba SATA card in-situ, there was a pronounced flicker on the green system power led as it started up.

    Why would the brand new Corsair and Seasonic PSUs not work with the SATA cards and yet the two old PSUs work fine ?

    Which components are actually faulty ? I am totally confused !

    Any Gurus out there care to comment.
    Thanks

    FYI Googling around, I see others have had boot loop issues using PCIe cards ...

    http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/...s-network-card
    https://forums.tweaktown.com/gigabyt...e-x4-slot.html
    http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/...-xonar#3256729
    https://forums.tweaktown.com/gigabyt...e-x4-slot.html
    Last edited by Gussie; 02-22-2018 at 06:26 PM. Reason: clarification

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    Default PSU Minimum Loading Issue

    Hi,
    I had an weird issue with my home built system when it started to power cycle - switching on and off repeatedly before the POST or OS had the chance to start.

    Initially all was well until I added a PCIe SATA controller card to give me access to more data discs.

    My system comprises an ASRock N3150-ITX with a 128GB SSD running Windows 10 connected to an onboard SATA port, two case cooling fans, PCIe SATA Controller card and a 4 bay SATA rack with a dedicated cooling fan. See pictures.

    Now, all is well IF I have the SATA rack powered on, BUT if the SATA rack is powered off, my system power cycles immediately.

    I quickly established that it I remove the PCIe card, my system behaves normally again. There followed two weeks of wasted effort - swapping PCIe cards, PSUs and even trying a different motherboard (ASRock N3700-ITX) - everything gave the same result ...

    The presence of a PCIe card caused my system to power cycle until I powered up at least one of my data drives - in fact all I needed to do was just power up my empty SATA rack and have its dedicated fan spinning.

    The cause was simply that I was not pulling enough juice on the 5V/12V rails with the PCIe card present - even though I had a N3150-ITX motherboard, 4GB RAM, 128GB SSD and two no name case fans running, the PSU would become unstable and power cycle until I switched on some extra disk drives, or just connected two more cooling fans , or as I have now done, connect a 25W 47 Ohm resistor to the 12V line. That's the gold thing you see at the bottom of my case - now my system behaves no matter if I have my data drives On or Off.

    You might say I have a duff PSU, well here's the thing ...
    The issue seems to only affect newer more recent PSUs.

    These two older PSUs, I tried, did not need the extra 5V/12V loading ...

    Powercool PCPC450AUBA 450W PSU (Purchased 2010)
    SilverStone SST-ST40F-ES 400W PSU (Purchased 2011)
    These PSUs DID NEED extra 5V/12V loading ..

    XFX PRO 450W Core Edition PSU (Purchased 2013)
    Seasonic S12-II 620W PSU (Brand New)
    Corsair VS450 PSU (Brand New)

    Furthermore Seasonic support admitted to me that some of their PSUs would require extra loading in certain circumstances because of their "magnetic amplify on secondary side instead of DC to DC circuit" designs.

    So be careful if you are using low power systems , corner cases like mine may prove problematic!



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    Quote Originally Posted by Gussie View Post
    The issue seems to only affect newer more recent PSUs.
    Umm.... No. Your PSU is not a "newer more recent" design. Not at all.

    The XFX Core Edition is based off of the antiquated, double forward, group regulated, Seasonic S12II platform.

    It DOES NOT like cross loads AT ALL. That's why it's frequently recommended AGAINST using, despite the superior build quality.

    The other PSUs you tried are of similar design, but some PSUs react to crossloads differently than others. You just happen to buy a PSU that is "the most misbehaved" of any when crossloaded.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gussie View Post
    The cause was simply that I was not pulling enough juice on the 5V/12V rails with the PCIe card present
    Yes but why did you only order lowest of the low from the manufacturers?
    With a better quality PSU you wouldn't have any issues.
    ANd your conclusion is kinda wrong because you believe that all PSU have to be the same and comparable to the ones you ordered - wich they are not...


    Quote Originally Posted by Gussie View Post
    These two older PSUs, I tried, did not need the extra 5V/12V loading ...

    Powercool PCPC450AUBA 450W PSU (Purchased 2010)
    SilverStone SST-ST40F-ES 400W PSU (Purchased 2011)
    These PSUs DID NEED extra 5V/12V loading ..

    XFX PRO 450W Core Edition PSU (Purchased 2013)
    Seasonic S12-II 620W PSU (Brand New)
    Corsair VS450 PSU (Brand New)
    All are what I'd call "system integrator level", all are group regulated.
    That means that +12V and +5V are regulated together. If you load the +12V heavily and the +5V not, the +5V rises while the +12V falls.
    Or the other way around.
    Nothing can be done against that on such units, you can built the PSU more to one way, the other or somewhere inbetween. But the problem stays. And that is why Group Regulation is garbage on unknown loads!

    What you want is independently regulated units. How that is done is irrelevant, what is important is that all main voltages are not dependent on each others like it is with your PSU.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gussie View Post
    Furthermore Seasonic support admitted to me that some of their PSUs would require extra loading in certain circumstances because of their "magnetic amplify on secondary side instead of DC to DC circuit" designs.
    The first part is true.
    The second one is not.

    Magnetic Amplifier has nothing to do with your problem.

    Well, except that it wasn't used for the +5V Rail as well as the 3,3V Rail.
    If that was the case you would have been fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gussie View Post
    So be careful if you are using low power systems , corner cases like mine may prove problematic!
    No, not true.

    Just get a good quality PSU with DC-DC or it will come back and bite you like it did in your case.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jonnyGURU View Post
    The XFX Core Edition is based off of the antiquated, double forward, group regulated, Seasonic S12II platform.
    Yip and that's why you can say that those two are basically the same unit, just different wattage:

    XFX PRO 450W Core Edition PSU (Purchased 2013)
    Seasonic S12-II 620W PSU (Brand New)

    Just with different labels, from different companys but still kinda the same...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Payne View Post
    Just get a good quality PSU with DC-DC or it will come back and bite you like it did in your case.
    I am running a motherboard with 6 SATA connectors. I am currently running 1x SSD, 2x HDD, 1x DVD and I'm thinking of adding another drive or two. I'm running an i7-6700 and an RX470.

    In your opinion, is my Corsair CX450M a "good quality" PSU in this scenario since I'll be putting extra load on the 3V and 5V lines with the additional drives?

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    That one is perfect for your PC.

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to -The_Mask- For This Useful Post:

    GDILord (03-09-2018)

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    Thanks Mask.

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    Thanks for all the clarifications.

    So, what would be a good "DC to DC" PSU to use with my system i.e. low power ITX with 4 SATA drives, as described in my posts ?

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