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Thread: Another tier list at LTT

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    Quote Originally Posted by ct1615 View Post
    I thought Tom's Tier List was the list to end all PSU lists
    Tier 1 - Seasonic
    Tier 2 - It's junk, you should of purchased a Seasonic

    The thing about most PSU lists that I see is that they ignore things the common consumer in the market for a PSU would look into.

    For example Turkey3 states he does not take cost or fan noise into consideration but most review sites do as do most consumers. Length of warranty and customer service are also keys to making a purchase.
    these factors, the ones that actually matter to buyers, complicate "tier lists" too much. why I've always maintained that a tier list is just an opinionated list of psus according to the maker's criteria and ultimately useless. really, who actually benefits? buyers? no, buyers benefit from reviews that show data points and offer in depth analysis. those wanting to learn about power supplies? no, a list with some brands and units on it doesn't teach anybody anything. at this point, what's the point?

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    Quote Originally Posted by PureBlackFire View Post
    at this point, what's the point?
    A list relieve people from thinking (as freedom weights a ton).
    Best, Luca

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    Quote Originally Posted by PureBlackFire View Post
    these factors, the ones that actually matter to buyers, complicate "tier lists" too much. why I've always maintained that a tier list is just an opinionated list of psus according to the maker's criteria and ultimately useless. really, who actually benefits? buyers? no, buyers benefit from reviews that show data points and offer in depth analysis. those wanting to learn about power supplies? no, a list with some brands and units on it doesn't teach anybody anything. at this point, what's the point?
    We had this discussion at Jonny's TierList thread as well ( http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12947 )
    One of the uses of a Tier List (*created by a reviewer that knows his job of course) is the following:
    That these lists are very useful from the perspective that they contain most of the PSUs that are available at the market, thus someone who wants to make a quick research, he won't have to spend much time searching for reviews.

    -P.S.And a comment about the creator of the LTT tier list:
    here is what you said at your 1st post of this thread: "And that's just the methodology I use (only for Tier 1), must be Japanese". By seeing this, i can understand that you have a lot of work ahead of you, because that's a beginner's thought in my opinion (*and in order to avoid misunderstandings, i'm a beginer myself as well ). As many of the experts here already stated, it's not something catastrophic, if a non-Japanese cap is used in a less stressful area, so the criteria that you begin with, is a faulty one.
    -P.S.2: @turkey3_scratch:
    Jonny has already made an exceptional(in my opinion) -yet unfinished- Tier list. The fact that all this time, someone like Jonny, with tons of expertise in the PSU field, still hasn't finished his list, this is a fact that you should take into serious consideration in my opinion
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    On the other hand, did he say all of them must be japanese?

    Oh yeah, I can see now, 100%. Well, this is one of my criterias for high-end also, but still, I make exception from time to time when it's as an extra at place it does not matter anyway, like those cable caps. So I guess if he also does, it'll be better than.
    Last edited by Behemot; 02-26-2016 at 05:14 PM.

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    I was disappointed enough with their video on how much AC power PSUs use.

    The point was to see whether higher power units drew more AC power running a typical mid-range PC.

    Then they use a Titanium 1500W, a Platinum 1200W a Gold 750W and a Bronze 450W

    Their conclusion was that a Titanium rated 1500W draws less power than a Bronze 450W
    (WELL DUH!!!!!)

    The 1500W Titanium unit is rated to be between 90%-92% efficient at 15% output (225W), while a Bronze 450W unit is only rated at 85% efficient at 225W output

    If they wanted to make the test anywhere close to being scientific, they should have at least used PSUs all with the same 80plus rating, if not the same OEM, or better yet the same platform.

    That's just giving them a pass on not even using a load tester.
    "There is no way you can be Harvard Monday through Friday, and try to be Alabama on Saturday" -Art Guepe former University of Virginia head football coach

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    Is there a definition of a Japanese cap?

    Must the raw material come from Japan?
    Must the cap be produced in Japan?
    Must the company be HQ in Japan?
    Must the QC tests be performed in Japan?

    Just curious if I open up a company in Japan, buy raw material from China and make my caps in Taiwan, can I still market them as Japanese caps?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ct1615 View Post
    Is there a definition of a Japanese cap?

    Must the raw material come from Japan?
    Must the cap be produced in Japan?
    Must the company be HQ in Japan?
    Must the QC tests be performed in Japan?
    There isn't a strict industry-wide definition that I know of. But in general, the cap's quality will mostly depend on the electrolyte chemical formula and the quality of aluminium foil used for the electrode.

    The former dictates that the company needs to have a genuine R&D team and not just copy off of another company's work, which usually means you want a Japanese HQ. The latter would mean that you want the Al foil sourced from Japan, as their purification and production methods are noticeably superior to Taiwanese and the mainland Chinese in particular.

    As for QC work and factory location, those don't need to be Japan-based. You can always have a couple of Japanese QC lead engineers at the plant and pay the needed sum to the factory to make sure QC is up to scratch. Production plant location, while possibly determining the work conditions for the employees, wouldn't necessarily influence the final product's quality.

    An example of a "non-Japanese" Japanese manufacturer is Toshin Kogyo, who source their caps almost entirely from Ost (Taiwan Ostor Corporation). And while Ost is kind of OK, TK is definitely not a "true" Japanese capacitor maker, even though their HQ is in Japan.

    Quote Originally Posted by ct1615 View Post
    Just curious if I open up a company in Japan, buy raw material from China and make my caps in Taiwan, can I still market them as Japanese caps?
    See above, this is essentially what TK does.
    Careful what you wish for... You just might get it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by McSteel View Post

    See above, this is essentially what TK does.
    I kind of figured some companies did this as "Japanese Caps" seems more like a marketing term then necessarily a true quality & reliability term (as in the actual manufacturer and specs of the product)
    Last edited by ct1615; 02-26-2016 at 05:36 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by McSteel View Post
    An example of a "non-Japanese" Japanese manufacturer is Toshin Kogyo, who source their caps almost entirely from Ost (Taiwan Ostor Corporation). And while Ost is kind of OK, TK is definitely not a "true" Japanese capacitor maker, even though their HQ is in Japan.
    Thanks for this background info. Explains a lot about so many TK craps which have been seen. I always have had TK on the bad cap list manufacturer, now I know they are not even the manufacturer

    ct1615: that's why I don't use quality cap=japanese cap. It is quality cap>=japanese cap. Most of the good cap brands are japanese no matter where they have their fabs…but those are still not all the quality manufacturers.

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