Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 13

Thread: Question on power supply aging and units with 10 year warranties

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    21
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Default Question on power supply aging and units with 10 year warranties

    Greetings,

    Recently I got a remark in a build recommendation, that because the components of a power supply degrade over time you should be replacing them every 2-3 years. This time frame is ridiculous, but it got be to researching what the facts were to present as a rebuttal.

    I have not found anything clear on power supply aging. Most of the information is several years old and potentially not relevant to the EVGA Supernova G2 units I recommend, and the info didn't really give me a clear answer my question anyway.

    The EVGA supernova G2 series are 80 plus gold rated, with 10 year warranties. I am wondering:

    -With the components specific to this unit, what does age actually do?

    -How is their efficiency affected over time?

    -a rule of thumb generally is that warranties usually cover the first third or half of the life of a good, but could one use these units for 20 years? at what point would they not be functioning in spec?

    Thanks for any info anyone could give me. Also specific technical detail would be great!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    jonnyGURU forums, of course!
    Posts
    16,076
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    539
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    274
    Thanked in
    198 Posts

    Default

    It really depends on what the PSU is. Not so much the warranty.

    Some warranties are determined by the cap and fan life at maximum load, maximum temperature. But not all. Some are just marketing.

    But 2-3 years is pretty low unless you're talking about a pretty poor quality PSU (85°C caps, sleeve bearing fan, etc.). But ifi you're talking about a G2, I would say you could easily get 5 to 7 years out of it. 20? No. 10? Maybe.

    Where your "rule of thumb" came from, I have no idea. Perishable foods, maybe?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    21
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jonnyGURU View Post
    It really depends on what the PSU is. Not so much the warranty.

    Some warranties are determined by the cap and fan life at maximum load, maximum temperature. But not all. Some are just marketing.

    But 2-3 years is pretty low unless you're talking about a pretty poor quality PSU (85°C caps, sleeve bearing fan, etc.). But ifi you're talking about a G2, I would say you could easily get 5 to 7 years out of it. 20? No. 10? Maybe.

    Where your "rule of thumb" came from, I have no idea. Perishable foods, maybe?
    The rule of thumb is from goods in general, not specifically PSUs, or computer components. Manufacturers seem to give a warranty period that expires long before parts degrade from wear or age.

    The 10 year warranties on the EVGA G2 series seem to not follow this trend. I couldn't see a PSU lasting 20 years. It makes me curious if the 10 year warranty is essentially a 'lifetime warranty' in the sense that EVGA expects the product to last 10 years.


    Anyway what makes you say 5-7 years?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    jonnyGURU forums, of course!
    Posts
    16,076
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    539
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    274
    Thanked in
    198 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tao View Post
    The rule of thumb is from goods in general, not specifically PSUs, or computer components. Manufacturers seem to give a warranty period that expires long before parts degrade from wear or age.

    The 10 year warranties on the EVGA G2 series seem to not follow this trend. I couldn't see a PSU lasting 20 years. It makes me curious if the 10 year warranty is essentially a 'lifetime warranty' in the sense that EVGA expects the product to last 10 years.


    Anyway what makes you say 5-7 years?
    I've never heard of this "rule of thumb". It certainly doesn't apply to computer products. Example: Many memory companies provide lifetime warranty on DIMMs. But DIMMs simply cannot last a lifetime.

    Warranty is more of a marketing thing than anything... unfortunately. Rarely is any kind of case study or statistical analysis applied.

    As far as a 10 year warranty being a lifetime warranty: Lifetime warranties are essentially "illegal" in the EU. The limit is 10 years. So anything that claims to have a lifetime warranty is actually limited to 10 years. In the U.S., lifetime warranties are legal, but there are different definitions of lifetime. Lifetime of the product (i.e.: life until product is discontinued), lifetime of original owner, etc.

    Also, in the E.U., warranties need to have a minimum of two years. So even the worst products in the world, that may actually only last one year in real life use, still needs to have a two year warranty.

    Why do I know all this? I've been in the industry for 20 years and spent a couple years as the RMA/RTV manager for a major computer wholesaler, as well as a number of manufacturers.

  5. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Jon Gerow For This Useful Post:

    none77 (10-12-2016)

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    21
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jonnyGURU View Post
    I've never heard of this "rule of thumb". It certainly doesn't apply to computer products. Example: Many memory companies provide lifetime warranty on DIMMs. But DIMMs simply cannot last a lifetime.

    Warranty is more of a marketing thing than anything... unfortunately. Rarely is any kind of case study or statistical analysis applied.

    As far as a 10 year warranty being a lifetime warranty: Lifetime warranties are essentially "illegal" in the EU. The limit is 10 years. So anything that claims to have a lifetime warranty is actually limited to 10 years. In the U.S., lifetime warranties are legal, but there are different definitions of lifetime. Lifetime of the product (i.e.: life until product is discontinued), lifetime of original owner, etc.

    Also, in the E.U., warranties need to have a minimum of two years. So even the worst products in the world, that may actually only last one year in real life use, still needs to have a two year warranty.

    Why do I know all this? I've been in the industry for 20 years and spent a couple years as the RMA/RTV manager for a major computer wholesaler, as well as a number of manufacturers.

    It is more what I see in warranties seen in the North American market. Anyway my post wasn't so much about warranties, other than the implications of the EVGA units having 10 year warranties.

    What would the performance of the G2 series look like after 10 years?

    How would their efficiency drop if it does drop?

    What specifically would age do to the performance of these units?

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    780
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    26
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tao View Post
    It is more what I see in warranties seen in the North American market. Anyway my post wasn't so much about warranties, other than the implications of the EVGA units having 10 year warranties.

    What would the performance of the G2 series look like after 10 years?

    How would their efficiency drop if it does drop?

    What specifically would age do to the performance of these units?
    Other companies also have 10y warranty on their psus...


    Pretty much ripple should just increase as the capacitors age etc - but to be honest, my grandfathers cheap pentium 4 machine had a psu that ran 24/7 for a good 14 years now. That psu is a piece of trash and it's lasted that long, and his hardware is fine. So to be fair, efficiency goes down and ripple goes up, but i wouldn't worry. Not to mention that there will probably be new specs in 20 years (cough 24/20v PLEASE)

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    U.S.A.
    Posts
    1,264
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    327
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Default

    I mean, just talking plainly I can think of plenty of things we have from the 80s and 90s still working well. One of our TVs is from the late 80s, still working well. TVs have power supplies. Same with other stuff from those days and ages. As for computers, I'd see the Supernova G2s lasting 10 years for the majority of people. They are consumer power supplies and last time I checked consumers sleep so they shouldn't be under 24/7 use and consumers also overestimate so they should last super long. Obviously the fan will probably fail before anything else but I think it's a double ball and should last a long time.

    Just don't listen to all those people who say the PSU can't provide as much power as it ages. Some people even come up with actual figures saying like "every year the PSU's max output decreases by 10%" which is just not true at all. Somehow people tend to confuse power with things like voltage stability under high loads and it drives me nuts!

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    780
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    26
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Default

    Well not to mention most people have 750 g2s in systems that Mac out at 350w or so.

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    jonnyGURU forums, of course!
    Posts
    16,076
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    539
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    274
    Thanked in
    198 Posts

    Default

    Right... So back to the original question of "how long should it actually last":

    Depends on the actual load.

    Depends on how much the PC is going to be used.

    Depends on how hot the operating temperature is.

    So.... Anywhere between 5 and 20 years.

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    3,645
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    6
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    66
    Thanked in
    60 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tao View Post
    -a rule of thumb generally is that warranties usually cover the first third or half of the life of a good, but could one use these units for 20 years? at what point would they not be functioning in spec?
    Why would you use a PC 20 years??
    Some things you can use 20 years without a problem because they more or less stay the same, there isn't that much innovation in the market. Line 'white wares' in general. Like your Washingmachine. No problem with using it 20 years...

    But with a computer?!
    20 years ago was 1996. At that time we had somethings like 200MHz Pentium 1 thingys. Pentium 2 came a year later...
    And everything was done with +5V. PSUs had, if you're lucky, something like 10A on +12V...

    So by looking back, you can easily say that it makes no sense to use such an old PSU with modern components. That just wouldn't work...´

    And that's the thing with innovation = change...

    So things in the PC segment still change, still not as much as it was 20-10 years ago but there are still things changing.
    For example the power managment of modern graphics cards wich make some changes to the PSU neccessary, so that I woudn't run a RX480 or GTX 1080 with a Corsair HX520, even if it still works...

    So the first question isn't if you could do something old. The question is if it is a good idea to use something old.
    And with old PC-Power Supplys the thing is that you can not know how bad the shape the PSU is in is, without very expansive equipment. That + the change happening, it can be a good idea to replace a PSU that looks like it's working...

    And sometimes the PSU can be in a rather bad shape and your PC still seem to run well...

    And that's the reason to recomend a new PSU...
    Especially if you want to upgrade your rig, it sometimes does not make sense to use the old PSU. Especially if it is either made by Topower or has passive PFC and other oldish things...

Similar Threads

  1. SilverStone Olympia 1000W Power Supply 7 Year Redux
    By -The_Mask- in forum PC Power Supply Discussion
    Replies: 36
    Last Post: 03-15-2018, 02:19 AM
  2. Seasonic G-360 and G-550 Power Supply Units Review (@
    By mascotzel in forum PC Power Supply Discussion
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 01-16-2013, 10:47 PM
  3. Chieftec Power Supply Units Roundup
    By burebista in forum PC Power Supply Discussion
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 03-27-2009, 07:39 AM
  4. ATX Power Supply Units Roundup. Part X
    By burebista in forum PC Power Supply Discussion
    Replies: 29
    Last Post: 10-19-2008, 01:52 PM
  5. Roundup: Seven Power Supply Units from Antec
    By burebista in forum PC Power Supply Discussion
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 06-29-2008, 06:11 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •