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Thread: New prototype of Seasonic S12G 550 W @HWI

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    Default New prototype of Seasonic S12G 550 W @HWI


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    Really liking the modifications you've done that you describe on the last page.
    Have you got any photos of the secondary side with your extra ceramics?

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    Though I appreciate your attitude, Pavel, still I don't understand why Aris (TPU), Philip (CB) and Spectre ([H]) found so different (apparently) figures for ripple and regulation...
    Best, Luca

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    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    Really liking the modifications you've done that you describe on the last page.
    Have you got any photos of the secondary side with your extra ceramics?
    Unfortunatelly not, I have been working directly on the board (having all the cables plugged to the loader, I just opened the unit and removed the board from the casing). The 1206 caps have just the right size to fit between the legs.
    Quote Originally Posted by quest for silence View Post
    Though I appreciate your attitude, Pavel, still I don't understand why Aris (TPU), Philip (CB) and Spectre ([H]) found so different (apparently) figures for ripple and regulation...
    If you look at the numbers, you will see they are mostly very similar to mine. The thing is, most of them calculate relative voltage change, while I go strictly by ATX specification which sets no change values, but absolute difference from nominal. Than for example -11.35 V is almost 5.5 % difference from -12 V. While when falling lower to -11.5 V during the testing, it would be only 1.25 % relative change.

    Both views have their own merit, because unit may still be very well within +-2 % while the absolute difference will be e. g. 0.5 V between minimum and maximum load. But usually when it is so bad, I comment such results in the article so…

    As for absolute difference between the results, there will always be some. It also depends where you measure. I usually try to use one common/ground wire which conducts no current (as with high currents, the ground potential rises from 0 to >0 V) and than measure on the Main ATX conenctor, on the cable side of the pin. Because if you measure somewhere on the loader side, there is already some drop. And if you measure at some free SATA connector, you got full voltage which also does not correspond to the voltage which feedback reads in the Main ATX connector (many better units usually have feedbacks for positive rails in the Main ATX). ATX spec does not say where exactly you are supposed to measure so…

    As for the ripple, I have no idea what is the reason of this. Basically all of the other untis I have had in last two years correspond (within reasonable margin) to them. Only these Seasonic G/S12G are constantly much worse. All of them I had so far perform like this. The only difference was the SS-550RT, OEM version of S12G.
    Last edited by Behemot; 12-04-2015 at 09:30 AM.

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    Those two side dimples flanking the screw-hole on the Hong Hua. That looks like the same frame used by Yate Loon.

    Q's - for Tator: did Hong Hua use the same frame (same supplier?) as YL? Does Hong Hua make YL fans? Something else?
    CPU: Core i7 8700k, HT enabled, all 6 cores OC'd to 4.8GHz, Vcore = 1.24v
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    Quote Originally Posted by ehume View Post
    Those two side dimples flanking the screw-hole on the Hong Hua. That looks like the same frame used by Yate Loon.

    Q's - for Tator: did Hong Hua use the same frame (same supplier?) as YL? Does Hong Hua make YL fans? Something else?
    The "Yate Loon Design" that many folks are familiar with is more of a generic design used by many manufacturers over in China. From the big names that people recognize, to the no-name XinXingDingDong factories where you question the authenticity of the glue on the label.

    YLTC has that design in their catalog as well, it's one of the more common brands you'll find offering that fan. Mostly because their Hysint bearing was being sold in that design on the consumer market a few years back as an FDB or HDB.

    Another manufacturer that comes to mind is Hong Sheng; when I saw this design from them, it was pulled from a off-brand PSU sold at Microcenter. A friend of a friend bought an el-cheapo 500 watter from them, and then was surprised after it gave out in his GTX 780 system after a few months. It was at least a ball bearing version inside.
    Retrospectively, I should have snapped some photos of the unit; but I was short on time back then so I just pulled the fan (it still working and being decent) and sent the smoke-machine off to e-cycle.

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    You know how it works - it may be pretty much possible that some third party big plastic-making company makes the frames for all of them. They just have their own electronics, motors, bearings (some of them may also be made by other third parties) and assemble it all together.

    There is not really that much to go for the plastic frame - you select from a variety of materials and colors and how good finish quality you want. Than it is just about having the form.

    It may be even more complicated - fourth company has the forms, and lends them to other manufacturers. May be the third parties, or maybe the fan makers themselves. Plastic forms are very expensive piece of equipment so they are often owned by somebody else than the one using them. At least in automotive. And how you save costs? You get the cheapest pieces, incl. frame. Which one is that? Well, the one your supplier already has the form for

    You may really notice there is couple of common frames which tens of manufacturers use. This Hong Hua is one of them, another common frame is that one with small channels for thin wires in each of the supporting bars (for LEDs).

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    I can't speak for the other brands, but I know for a fact that YLTC makes ALL of their parts in the same factory. They're small, so I'd have to think that if they're making all of their fan parts from scratch, why wouldn't others?


    Speaking of fans: When I visited the YLTC factory in China, I was intrigued to see the plastic raw material in bags marked "made in Taiwan". I asked the floor manager why the plastic came from Taiwan instead of just down the road and he said that there were so many impurities in the Chinese plastic that the amount of money they lost in the form of brittle plastic easily made up for the additional cost of importing the plastic from Taiwan.

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    Well they may have the forms lended from somebody else…and that one had all the forms the same for other factories.

    The forms are really extremelly expensive. It makes sense to have one of them if you make milions of exactly the same fans…but still comes cheaper to make more of the same forms than different ones.

    As for making the product, it is than easy when you have the form and melting/injecting machine. Just pour plastic to one end and product cames from the other one

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    The cost on a fan frame is actually very inexpensive in the long run for any of those larger OEMs. I doubt they borrow or rent anything of that sort.

    Hell, I was even working with a company not too long ago (almost 2 years now) and helping them with a custom designed fan. Essentially everything but the bearing was going to be unique to them. The cost to design, implement, and manufacture wasn't nearly as expensive as you would think.
    Unfortunately that project fell through as the sales on "Premium Fans" (aka ones that cost $20+) is rather low. It also didn't help that Corsair's AF/SP Twin-Packs were going incredibly cheap at the time and caught on very well with consumers, rightly so.

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