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Thread: Andyson N700 Titanium Review

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    Nah. Teapo are still behind the Jap brands IMO, and they always will be. I just pulled several of them bulged from an FSP. They get used by Chicony and the likes solely because they are cheaper and are good enough to outlast the warranty.
    No wonder it doesn't work! You installed the coils backwards

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    Peronal opinion: There is nothing wrong with selling 50 dollar psu. If these meet ATX spec, deliver full power and keep the promises the band makes there is nothing wrong with selling those psu
    The problem is marketing weenies! It is not likely a $50 PSU will be very efficient. Current ATX standards don't call for good efficiency ratings either. The "REQUIRED Minimum Efficiency" is,
    Full Load (100%) - 70%
    Typical Load (50%) - 72%
    Light Load (20%) - 65%
    No doubt the marketing weenies will ensure the packaging and labeling will obscure those figures as much as the laws allow. And that bothers me.

    These budget supplies will most likely be bought by budget oriented consumers. Their motherboards will likely be entry level boards too. And entry level motherboards tend to have entry level regulation circuits that are less capable of dealing with power anomalies than higher end motherboards. Anomalies such as poor voltage tolerances and excessive ripple. The maximum ripple allowed by the current ATX standards are 120mV p-p on the 12V rails and 50mV p-p on the +3.3V and +5V rails.

    The ripple suppression and voltage regulation with the budget $50 PSUs are more likely to be less controlled. That presents a greater potential for adverse affects on stability with budget motherboards.

    So for my personal opinion, as someone who is very aware and very sympathetic to the budget conscious consumers who have too much month at the end of the money, the marketing weenies MUST ensure less savvy and budget oriented consumers are fully aware of what they are getting. IF the marketing weenies ensure the packaging and advertising fully illustrates that, then I am not against selling them either.

    Even though a higher-end PSU will likely save that budget oriented consumer more money over the life of the PSU, I understand spending more up front is often not an option.

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    And another thing...

    @ OklahomaWolf - Thank you, thank you, thank you for harping about Japanese caps. I have felt and complained for several years now that the Japanese do not have a monopoly on quality caps!! And that it has, in recent years, become a marketing "gimmick" to boast about having "Japanese" caps inside. I note in many cases, Japanese caps were often manufactured elsewhere. They were just sold (and labeled) by Japanese companies.

    So my hope is the focus, as you indicated in this review, will be on "quality" caps, and not the country of origin - even if that other country is China. And I think your rant is a step, or giant leap in the right direction.

    Now the "politics" of the Chinese taking over the world is another issue. We do need more Western countries to step-up with top quality components at competitive prices. But that's for a different discussion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by c_hegge View Post
    Nah. Teapo are still behind the Jap brands IMO, and they always will be. I just pulled several of them bulged from an FSP. They get used by Chicony and the likes solely because they are cheaper and are good enough to outlast the warranty.
    You always seem to find the bent needle in the haystack, though. Interesting, since your sample size should be relatively smaller. At work, I have years of PSU failures documented and cap failure makes up a fraction of percent. I have to wonder if it's the level of quality you're dealing with or.... ???

    For example: FSP. They are perfectly capable of making crap, for sure. Poorly designed... poorly laid out... poorly cooled. I just opened up a 250W FSP from 2010 and that thing was horrible. About the same quality as a Powmax. The Chicony, on the other hand, was from a Magnavox TV and, despite the Teapo caps, exuded quality in workmanship.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sith'ari View Post
    If Corsair decides in the future to use chinese caps to one of their higher-end models, will she back-it up with the same strong 7-year warranty that uses at their current higher-end models?
    Something like that would be a strong lead, that indeed, the quality of the Japanese and Chinese caps are considered as equal.
    They can... but they won't. Switch to Chinese caps that is. From a marketing standpoint, it's just not worth it. You're talking about a BOM cost difference that's around $1 and the risk of customer sentiment. That's why they switched the RM to Japanese caps. Not because they had to. But because the customers wouldn't shut up about it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Digerati View Post
    And another thing...

    @ OklahomaWolf - Thank you, thank you, thank you for harping about Japanese caps. I have felt and complained for several years now that the Japanese do not have a monopoly on quality caps!! And that it has, in recent years, become a marketing "gimmick" to boast about having "Japanese" caps inside. I note in many cases, Japanese caps were often manufactured elsewhere. They were just sold (and labeled) by Japanese companies.
    I'm sorry mate, but your point isn't valid according to my way of thinking.
    The fact that Japanese caps are produced by Japanese factories in China, for lower cost, doesn't automatically means than the Chinese have the technology to produce caps of equal quality!!
    It's like saying that if for example,...Microsoft has a factory in Greece (*my country), then the Greek factories will be able to produce windows just like Microsoft !!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonnyGURU View Post
    Interesting, since your sample size should be relatively smaller.
    While that is probably true, you don't see the whole picture.
    At work, I have years of PSU failures documented and cap failure makes up a fraction of percent. I have to wonder if it's the level of quality you're dealing with or.... ???
    But at you work for BFG and Corsair you only see the problems in warranty. But capacitors failures are almost all outside warranty. If you look at Corsair then there is the VS, CX(M), CS and GS all with only three years of warranty. If the caps fail in three years something was terrible wrong.

    The only Corsair PSU's that have a chance to fail inside warranty are the CWT made RM series.

    Quote Originally Posted by jonnyGURU View Post
    They can... but they won't. Switch to Chinese caps that is. From a marketing standpoint, it's just not worth it. You're talking about a BOM cost difference that's around $1 and the risk of customer sentiment. That's why they switched the RM to Japanese caps. Not because they had to. But because the customers wouldn't shut up about it.
    But Corsair didn't, they only changed the RM750 and RM850, and those were already the best RM PSU's quality wise. If it's only 1 dollar, why don't change it? The Corsair RM450 till RM650 are already really expensive, 1 dollar more is still a lot of profit.
    Last edited by -The_Mask-; 04-30-2015 at 06:58 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sith'ari View Post
    I'm sorry mate, but your point isn't valid according to my way of thinking.
    Then according to your way of thinking, OklahomaWolf's way of thinking is invalid too, and then so is his revised method of reviewing and evaluating PSUs!

    I stand behind my point, and his. While many Chinese factories product total junk, not all do.

    The fact that Japanese caps are produced by Japanese factories in China, for lower cost, doesn't automatically means than the Chinese have the technology to produce caps of equal quality!!
    Yeah, so? It also doesn't automatically mean the Chinese don't have the technology to produce quality caps either! That argument works both ways so your point there is totally invalid. The fact the Chinese probably stole the technology instead of developing it on their own is immaterial and for another discussion.

    It's like saying that if for example,...Microsoft has a factory in Greece (*my country), then the Greek factories will be able to produce windows just like Microsoft !!!
    Why can't they? Are you Greeks incapable of making quality products? Pretty sure you can - if you want to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by -The_Mask- View Post
    While that is probably true, you don't see the hole picture.
    You mean whole picture?

    Quote Originally Posted by -The_Mask- View Post
    But at you work for BFG and Corsair you only see the problems in warranty. But capacitors failures are almost all outside warranty. If you look at Corsair then there is the VS, CX(M), CS and GS all with only three years of warranty. If the caps fail in three years something was terrible wrong.
    Not just RMA, but technical marketing is also responsible for monitoring all of the forums around the world (or, at least DE, FR, UK, US and Spanish speaking countries) and we see old HX, VX and TX PSUs fail out of warranty often. Funny enough, since most people only know to look for failed caps, most of these people will open up the PSU (why not? It's out of warranty!), see no bad caps and say, "Gee... I have no idea why it would have failed. All of the caps look good!"

    Quote Originally Posted by -The_Mask- View Post
    The only Corsair PSU's that have a chance to fail inside warranty are the CWT made RM series.
    So says you.

    Quote Originally Posted by -The_Mask- View Post
    But Corsair didn't, they only changed the RM750 and RM850, and those were already the best RM PSU's quality wise. If it's only 1 dollar, why don't change it? The Corsair RM450 till RM650 are already really expensive, 1 dollar more is still a lot of profit.
    Well.. the previous PM was a knucklehead that lacked attention to detail. The 750W and 850W were changed more to move away from Chicony. Not because we had to add Japanese caps. But if you're relaunching a product with a new PM, why not go ahead and change the caps?

    As for the other wattages... It's only $1 more if it was spec'd out with Jap caps to begin with. Since it would be an ECN of an existing product, the cost is higher since everything needs to be re-tested and certified. If there's already a new revision of those wattages in the works for other reasons (not saying there is, but....), then it doesn't make sense to change ALL of them at the same time... only to change them again soon after. That's just going to incur even greater NRE costs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jonnyGURU View Post
    You always seem to find the bent needle in the haystack, though. Interesting, since your sample size should be relatively smaller. At work, I have years of PSU failures documented and cap failure makes up a fraction of percent. I have to wonder if it's the level of quality you're dealing with or.... ???...
    Maybe. Most of the PSUs I've had problems with have been on a similar level of quality to something like the Corsair CX or CS. Not exactly Delta Server level, but not even close to Pow(to the)Max level either. The kind of thing you would see in a HP or Dell office PC. Probably around two thirds to three quarters of the PSU failures from that level I've seen have been the secondary side caps (and that's not counting cap failures cause by a stuck fan, or the Antec SP and SL series), with the rest being mostly from stuck fans.

    Quote Originally Posted by Digerati View Post
    Yeah, so? It also doesn't automatically mean the Chinese don't have the technology to produce quality caps either!
    The Japanese don't (and probably won't) sell their aluminum to any of the Chinese brands. As a result, they are stuck using inferior materials, and are thus completely incapable of making parts with the same quality. Even if LTEC's mess-up with the stolen electrolyte formula is long gone, a well-formulated electrolyte can still react with impurities in the aluminum.
    No wonder it doesn't work! You installed the coils backwards

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