Need PSU recommendations, please

[Perdita]

I've been on a tear the last month or so & especially the last 2 weeks trying to learn everything I can to upgrade our computer so my 43yo gamer husband is happy. He just plays; the nut & bolts are up to me. My brain definitely hurts and I am starting to want my regular life back.

It all started when he bought Company of Heroes and we didn't have enough room on our 40GB HDD to install it. So I deleted some stuff, defragged, and decided to buy a new HDD soon. Then after installing the COH game on the 40GB and it looked 'wierd', we realized our ATI Radeon 9200SE card wasn't good enough. So I bought an ATI Radeon X1600PRO.

In the meantime, I upgraded our RAM from 1x512MB to 2x1024 Corsair XMSpro DDR PC3200. I also added a HP 22" wide LCD monitor to replace our 19" CRT.

Before installing the new video card, I realized our 300W ATNG Premier PSU is not big enough. So here I am asking the experts at jonnyguru.com (was referred here by another board) to help me pick a new PSU so I can install the card so my hubby can play his damn game, lol!

I've read various PSU101 articles, read message boards, ran a couple of PSU size estimators, looked around some online computer supply stores, and read several rating/ranking/recommendation lists. I guess I need at least 450W, but am clueless which unit to get. So can you help me? Please?

Here is my system:
Intel P4 3.0 GHz Northwood CPU
ASUS P4P800 mobo
Corsair XMSpro 2x1024GB DDR PC3200 RAM
ATI Radeon X1600PRO 512MB DDR2 AGP8x video card
HP w22 monitor running DVI
WD Ultra ATA 40GB internal HDD
future SATA internal drive
DVDRW/CDRW drive
DVD ROM drive
floppy drive


single or double 12V rail?
non-PFC? APFC? PPFC?
non-modular? modular?
other major deciding factors?


Thank you for any help/advice/direction/comments/suggestions/etc. on choosing my new PSU. My hubby thanks you, too!

[GalvanizedYankee]

Welcome to this board.
Thanks for the laugh :lol: Do you have a single older sister? :p

The Enhance ENP-5140GH 400W will support that system well.
http://ewiz.com/ has has them for about $58.
http://www.deadeyedata.com/ has them for $65 but if you go there via this site there is an 8% discount.
Dead Eye is run by Jennifer and she is a good vendor / very helpful.

[Bun-Bun]

single or double 12V rail?
non-PFC? APFC? PPFC?
non-modular? modular?
other major deciding factors?


Thank you for any help/advice/direction/comments/suggestions/etc. on choosing my new PSU. My hubby thanks you, too!

There are pros and cons to both single and multi rail PSU's and I don't think it really matters in this case.

Active PFC is a definite bonus as it means a more efficient PSU without the voltage switch on the back.

non-modular vs modular really is personal preference. Modular sure helps in cable management especially on PSU's with lots of connections... I sure wish my Zippy GSM6600 was modular lol. However non modular tend to have less ripple.

I have a system very much like yours (2.8 Prescott @ 3.5, 2 x 1024 PC-4000 OCZ Gold XTC, Abit IC7-Max3, 6600GT AGP, 4 hard drives, crap load of lights and fans, and more) and I was running it off a 430watt no problem. So I dont see why you would need anything over a 400 watt. Recently it's PSU died and I bought a Antec Neo 550HE and have been happy with it. It's small, modular, efficient and stable. You can get the HE430 for around $84.

Although, the Enhance unit recommended previously is rated higher here so it would be the better choice and it is cheaper. But the Neo's are modular and options are always good ;)

[GalvanizedYankee]

Active PFC decreases efficientcy by a bit but it does deal with main's voltage irregularities, called auto-ranging iirc.
APFC will also increase UPS battery run time by a bit.

Modular has no impact on ripple. Links to whoever or where ever that was read.

[JEDIYoda]

Its been said that active PFC decreases effiency by a bit. That is true to a point!
But the decrease is so miniscule it hardly measurable.

A good example of hardly measurable would be somebody stating that one of the drawbacks to having a modular PSU. The fact is, modular plugs limit power by adding to electrical resistance. Well as Jonny on numerous times as well as others including myself have pointed out its hardly measurable if at all.

The same goes for active PFC. Sure there is a decrease but again its hardly even worth mentioning!

Welcome to these forums!! Sounds like your husband has himself a treasure.

You cannot go wrong by getting what is recommended on these forums!!

[Bun-Bun]

I guess I stand corrected on the APFC part... guess I will go do some more reading. I thought I read somewhere that APFC will reduce the amount of VA required from a UPS and that it makes the PSU more efficient...

EDIT: Just did some reading and PFC will bring the power factor closer to 1 and depending on the supplier of electricity it could reduce your power bill. To me that makes PFC and APFC more efficient then non PFC. Please correct me if I am totally out there.

And I should have stated that the loss from modular is is unmeasurable... I was just trying to say that the added connections can add resistance no matter how insignificant it may be...

[GalvanizedYankee]

*Generally* better PSUs will have APFC...It is requiored in the EU because it serves the needs of the power provider.
APFC circuitry causes heat inside the PSU. This waste heat impacts efficientcy by 1~2%, generally closer to 1%. That's not alot but it IS measurable.

On our links page is an article about the impact of modular on resistance. :)

[Perdita]

Welcome to this board.
Thanks for the laugh :lol: Do you have a single older sister? :p

The Enhance ENP-5140GH 400W will support that system well.
Thank you for the welcome! I'm glad my post gave you a chuckle. (sorry, no sisters) I think the 'set-up' (not sure the correct term) of that Enhance model is wrong for my case. I have an 80mm fan and the power connector coming out the back of my current PSU/case.

I have a system very much like yours (2.8 Prescott @ 3.5, 2 x 1024 PC-4000 OCZ Gold XTC, Abit IC7-Max3, 6600GT AGP, 4 hard drives, crap load of lights and fans, and more) and I was running it off a 430watt no problem. So I dont see why you would need anything over a 400 watt. Recently it's PSU died and I bought a Antec Neo 550HE and have been happy with it. It's small, modular, efficient and stable. You can get the HE430 for around $84.

Although, the Enhance unit recommended previously is rated higher here so it would be the better choice and it is cheaper. But the Neo's are modular and options are always good ;)
Thanx for the rail/PFC/modular advice. It's funny you recommend the Antec as I see those for sale a lot of places online, but I have read on other review/forum sites that Antec is no good, and especially that the 550HE should not be used with ASUS boards?

APFC will also increase UPS battery run time by a bit. I thought I read somewhere that APFC will reduce the amount of VA required from a UPS and that it makes the PSU more efficient...
No UPS here.

Welcome to these forums!! Sounds like your husband has himself a treasure.

You cannot go wrong by getting what is recommended on these forums!!
Thank you for the warm welcome (you made me blush).

*Generally* better PSUs will have APFC...It is requiored in the EU because it serves the needs of the power provider.
APFC circuitry causes heat inside the PSU. This waste heat impacts efficientcy by 1~2%, generally closer to 1%. That's not alot but it IS measurable.

On our links page is an article about the impact of modular on resistance. :)
I read with interest an (the?) article about resistance in modular PSUs, thanx.


Okay, so let me add a few more bits of info:
I am in the US so APFC not required, but still recommended, yes?;
Mobo takes a 20 pin connector;
PSU fan is 80mm;
Fan & power connector are on the same face that points out the back of the PSU/case I have now;
Measurements are 85mm high x 150mm wide x 140mm deep;
I'd prefer to spend ~$100 or less;

[GalvanizedYankee]

Get the Enhance ENP-5140GH.

APFC is not to be avoided. The better units will have it.
This unit is 80Plus certed http://www.80plus.org/

The 5140 like many others, has a 24 pin ATX connector and like many it splits to drop the 4 unused pins for 20 pin board application. It just pulls apart.

There should be no issue fitting a PSU with a 120mm fan. In fact it will be quieter than most units with an 80mm fan.
EDIT: Link your case if you feel there is a real issue fitting a PSU w/a 120 fan.

Standard ATX dimention is 150X140X86mm.

Page through jonny's reviews as he did test this very unit.

[whitebrow]

You picked the right place to come for PSU advice! I saw your post on SD a while ago

I'll just say that I recieved a Silverstone ST50EF-PLUS today from DeadEyeData, and am quite impressed. Allegedly its pretty much identical to the Enhance ENP-5150GH, but the PCIe cables, 24pin cable, and 8 pin cpu power cable are sleeved while the enhance's are not. It comes with a 24 to 20 pin adapter and an 8 pin to 4 pin for the cpu power. I haven't started it yet but am impressed with the build, and would recommend it and others from the Element series, along with the Enhances which feature the same build.

The 120mm fan on the top/bottom of the psu will just pull air in, and it will move out the back. Pretty similar to what the 80mm on the back of yours is doing.


The Sunbeam Nuuo 550W was another I looked at because of Jonny's positive review. It's modular if you think you'd like that. I didn't get it because I had no real use for the 5.5in bay temp display/fan controllor because I'll almost always have the front of my P180 closed, and I was a little worried about the length of the cables in the case as well. I get to use the cpu power adapter with my silverstone which gives me ~7 more inches to work with.

Good luck! Your husband owes you for all this :D!

[Bun-Bun]

Thanx for the rail/PFC/modular advice. It's funny you recommend the Antec as I see those for sale a lot of places online, but I have read on other review/forum sites that Antec is no good, and especially that the 550HE should not be used with ASUS boards?


The problem with the Asus boards has been identified as a issue with asus and not sending power ok to the PSU properly. I can't remember all the specifics but you can find it discussed among other forums. This can be fixed with a bios update and Antec has made a new revision of the Neo's that doesn't have this problem anymore.

The Antec Neo's are Seasonic based and are a good unit. The rest of Antec's line, however, I stay away from.

[Perdita]

Get the Enhance ENP-5140GH.

APFC is not to be avoided. The better units will have it.
This unit is 80Plus certed http://www.80plus.org/

The 5140 like many others, has a 24 pin ATX connector and like many it splits to drop the 4 unused pins for 20 pin board application. It just pulls apart.

There should be no issue fitting a PSU with a 120mm fan. In fact it will be quieter than most units with an 80mm fan.
EDIT: Link your case if you feel there is a real issue fitting a PSU w/a 120 fan.

Standard ATX dimention is 150X140X86mm.

Page through jonny's reviews as he did test this very unit.

Something is telling me that 400W is gonna be too small (now? down the road?). Gotta trust my gut - know what I mean? So given that, what about the Enhance ENP-5150GH? Is it the same PSU just a higher wattage and about $12 more? And what is the difference between the 5150G and the 5150GH? The "H" means high efficiency?

Duly noted on the APFC - I will be sure to get a unit that has it, thanx!

On the pin thing - My P4 mobo has a 20 pin connection, but I thought I had read that the extra 4 pins on a 20/24 pin connector go to power the P4 CPU, yes?

About the fan thing - feeling quite blond on this one (actually I am blond, but with a degree in math, lol). Okay, so this 120mm fan would blow air down into the case or it would suck air out of the case and the air would exhaust out the back of the PSU/case? My current PSU just blows out the back, so I just can't picture how the air flow dynamics of fan on a bottom (top?) face of the PSU would work?

Here are piccys of my computer:

http://home.comcast.net/~hitch93/home.html/Computer_1-2007_001.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~hitch93/home.html/Computer_1-2007_002.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~hitch93/home.html/Computer_1-2007_003.jpg

You picked the right place to come for PSU advice! I saw your post on SD a while ago

I'll just say that I recieved a Silverstone ST50EF-PLUS today from DeadEyeData, and am quite impressed. Allegedly its pretty much identical to the Enhance ENP-5150GH, but the PCIe cables, 24pin cable, and 8 pin cpu power cable are sleeved while the enhance's are not. It comes with a 24 to 20 pin adapter and an 8 pin to 4 pin for the cpu power. I haven't started it yet but am impressed with the build, and would recommend it and others from the Element series, along with the Enhances which feature the same build.

The 120mm fan on the top/bottom of the psu will just pull air in, and it will move out the back. Pretty similar to what the 80mm on the back of yours is doing.

Good luck! Your husband owes you for all this :D!
Yes - that was me on SD! Small world, huh? :)

I see that Silverstone is 15% off (plus another 8%?) at Deadeye right now. Not sure what "sleeved power cables" means.

My 80mm is blowing out the back, so I guess that's why an interior fan has me confused. :confused:

Thanx for the wishes of luck and yes he does OWE ME for my hours of aggravation over his stoopid game!!! (Although I must admit - it's been sorta fun to learn all this computer tech stuff. Shhhh - don't tell him!:lol: )

The problem with the Asus boards has been identified as a issue with asus and not sending power ok to the PSU properly. I can't remember all the specifics but you can find it discussed among other forums. This can be fixed with a bios update and Antec has made a new revision of the Neo's that doesn't have this problem anymore.

The Antec Neo's are Seasonic based and are a good unit. The rest of Antec's line, however, I stay away from.
Thanx for the clarification! But since I have an older (2003) Asus board and would rather not dink with a bios update, nor tempt fate about the Asus/Antec troubles (even with Antec's revision). It'd be just my luck to get the last one in stock without, lol. So, I think I'll pass on this one. Also it's over my preferred price point, but I do thank you for your input! :)

[GalvanizedYankee]

OK, so you want a 500 watter.
The 5150GH is a very good but inexpensive unit.
The Silverstone ST56F is worth considering as a better optioned unit than the 5150.
The Corsair HX-520 will nick you $120 or there abouts and it is probably one of the best consumer grade 520W units.
Note: The 500W Silverstone Element is worth a look.

Let me know what you are serious about getting and I'll do a quick shop for you. Or check your deal.

The 120 fan faces the inside of the case, toward the CPU really, and acts as an intake for the PSU. It drives air through the PSU.

I'm not sure about the Corsair but the other two have 20/24 pin ATX connectors. The 4 unused pins just pull off and are tied off to be used with a newer board at up-grade time.
The 4 pin ATX connector is not involed with the 20/24 pin ATX, it is it's own deal.

[Perdita]

This is turning into a tutorial. ;-)
Yes and I thank you! You are such good teachers and I a willing student. :D

The 120 fan faces the inside of the case, toward the CPU really, and acts as an intake for the PSU. It drives air through the PSU.

I'm not sure about the Corsair but the other two have 20/24 pin ATX connectors. The 4 unused pins just pull off and are tied off to be used with a newer board at up-grade time.
The 4 pin ATX connector is not involed with the 20/24 pin ATX, it is it's own deal.
Thanx so much for the clarification on the fan and the connectors!

OK, so you want a 500 watter.
The 5150GH is a very good but inexpensive unit.
The Silverstone ST56F is worth considering as a better optioned unit than the 5150.
The Corsair HX-520 will nick you $120 or there abouts and it is probably one of the best consumer grade 520W units.
Note: The 500W Silverstone Element is worth a look.

Let me know what you are serious about getting and I'll do a quick shop for you. Or check your deal.
Yay! I feel we are making progress! Okay, Corsair is nice, but beyond my price point. That leaves:

Enhance ENP-5150GH 500W $69.01 @ eWiz
SilverStone ST56F Strider 560W $78.67 @ Deadeye w/8% discount
SilverStone ST50EF-Plus Element 500W $72.73 @ Deadeye w/8% discount


It's looking like one of the SilverStones is gonna be the winner. Thanx for your offer to shop & check deals for me - I will feel much more confident in my choice knowing an expert has helped. I am off to research these as far as reviews and price go. All input from anyone on the choices so far is encouraged and appreciated!!;)

[madmat]

After looking at your PC I have a couple of questions and a couple of suggestions. First off is that rear fan a 80X38mm fan? Hard to tell but it looks thicker than 25mm. Have you had issues with high temps? I'm willing to bet you have. First suggestion is to get a Dremel or 80mm hole saw and cut out that rear fan grill. If that is an 80X38mm fan you could cut out that rear fan grill and replace it with a much quieter 80X25mm fan and get better air flow. Also consider pulling the case front, cutting out the fan opening(s) (I built over a hundred PC's based on that chassis, I've seen it with 1, 2 and 4-80mm fans in the front as well as a single 120) and putting a fan (or fans) up front to get air into the case from the front. You might even consider putting a top blowhole fan in to exhaust the heat that gets trapped up there as well.

Welcome aboard and enjoy your stay.

[Perdita]

After looking at your PC I have a couple of questions and a couple of suggestions. First off is that rear fan a 80X38mm fan? Hard to tell but it looks thicker than 25mm. Have you had issues with high temps? I'm willing to bet you have. First suggestion is to get a Dremel or 80mm hole saw and cut out that rear fan grill. If that is an 80X38mm fan you could cut out that rear fan grill and replace it with a much quieter 80X25mm fan and get better air flow. Also consider pulling the case front, cutting out the fan opening(s) (I built over a hundred PC's based on that chassis, I've seen it with 1, 2 and 4-80mm fans in the front as well as a single 120) and putting a fan (or fans) up front to get air into the case from the front. You might even consider putting a top blowhole fan in to exhaust the heat that gets trapped up there as well.

Welcome aboard and enjoy your stay.
Thank you for evaluating the fans!!

I checked the rear fan and it is a 80x25mm (depth I assume), so that is better than 80x38mm, yes?

I have not had any issues with high temps with my current setup, but I am going to be changing the PSU, putting in a new graphics card and adding a HDD. So you suggest eliminating the rear fan grill and just having the fan open to the outside? What does the grill do anyway? Prevent schmutz from getting into the case or what? I think my uncle has a Dremel I could borrow if you really think I need to do this.

I see the 2 fan grills in the front of the case. If I put fans there, what do I do with the power button, reset button and 2 USB ports that are in the front?

Okay, let me ask you (if you don't mind) about my planned fan configuration. There will be 4 fans: 120mm fan on the PSU, 80mm case fan, 80mm fan on the CPU, and a 50mm fan on the under side (when installed) of the graphics card. Is this enough? I see it as 2 exhaust fans (120mm & 80mm) and 2 circulating fans (80mm & 50mm). Does there need to be an intake fan for this config. or do the vents on the case side and front provide enough passive intake?

I read somewhere (don't ask where; I have read so much in so many places my head is spinning) that you have to be careful with the fans not to create a 'vacuum' inside the case. Is my fan config okay in this respect or is a 'vacuum' a risk for what I have planned?

Thank you again for your interest in my project! I am happy to get all input! :)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Enhance ENP-5150GH 500W $69.01 @ eWiz
SilverStone ST56F Strider 560W $78.67 @ Deadeye w/8% discount
SilverStone ST50EF-Plus Element 500W $72.73 @ Deadeye w/8% discount

Okay - crunch time on the PSU: I need to make a decision. I am guessing the Enhance is out because the SilverStone Element is better. So that leaves the 2 SilverStones. I have read every review/post/topics/thread I could find on the 2 (all over the internet) and nothing said to me "Buy this one, not that one". So which one would should I get with my set-up? Element or Strider? I looked into adding a poll to this thread, but I guess you can't do that in this forum.

Everyone (Jonny, too) please weigh in this, so my poor hubby can play Company of Heroes. :crazy: Thanx much!

[madmat]

Sorry I missed this earlier. I dislike running no front fans as it'll cause the air to come in at every nook and cranny. The problem with this is that it'll pull air in from the optical drives causing dust to build up on the laser assembly which isn't good.

The grill is simply there to prevent fingers, toes, mice and what have you entering the case. You can buy wire grills to replace them at any PC shop worth its salt.

So, to recap, punched grills with tiny holes = bad. all exhaust fans with no intakes = bad. The fans inside the case don't really count as case cooling as they're moving case air around over their respective heat sinks, not cooling the case. Also a front fan will focus air flow on the hard drives which is a good thing as they really dislike heat and just using exhaust fans won't pull enough air directly across them to do much for cooling.

Good luck and have fun with your new sickness *cough* hobby.

[triton54]

Hey GY, you get a haircut?... you look different :D .

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=373100

ZipZoomFly has the Corsair 520 for 106 + free shipping, if anyone is interested.

I ordered a new PS for my aging 3Ghz N'wood and hope to keep it alive for another year or two. Haven't decided the manf. (the HIS vents outside) but I plan on a X1850Pro AGP. Although that's another thread.

triton54

[Perdita]

The PSU is ordered! I got the "SilverStone ST50EF-Plus 500W PS w/ active PFC and 80 Plus Efficiency" through Jennifer at DeadEye Data.

All your input (and the poll CAD posted for me) were immeasurably helpful in making this decision! Thank you so much!

On Madmat's suggestion I also ordered a fan (SilverStone FN81 80mm Ball Bearing Case Fan) for the front of my case. I assume I install it on the mobo side to blow air over the CPU? Or on the other side (I have 2 choices in my case)? Or it doesn't matter? I can already see I'll have to move my HDD back a notch or 2 for the fan to fit.

[madmat]

You can install 2 fans up front and in my opinion it wouldn't be a bad idea to use 2 of them.

[Perdita]

You can install 2 fans up front and in my opinion it wouldn't be a bad idea to use 2 of them.
Well, I only ordered one to start. So if you had to choose, which of the 2 front fan openings in this particular case/chassis (since you are familiar with it) would you pick to install a single fan?

[CAD4466HK]

Well, I only ordered one to start. So if you had to choose, which of the 2 front fan openings in this particular case/chassis (since you are familiar with it) would you pick to install a single fan?

The one nearest to the mobo;)

[madmat]

Actually, it's six of one, half dozen of the other. By the time the air gets back that far it will have spread enough that it won't make much difference. BTW, don't they have PC shops where you live? You should be able to pick up another fan at a brick & mortar store for $5 - $10 and not have to order another. Just a thought.

[Perdita]

Just a follow-up to my OP. I did receive the new PSU and I've installed it (as well as the new fan) and they are purring away!!

Thank you all again so very very much for all your help and support! I don't think I could have done it without you! :) ;)