Strange abrupt dropping of 3.3 volts.

[SDplus]

What happens is this:
When I run a 3D benchmark the 3.3 volts drops dramatically to below 1.4 volts when the machine just blackscreens and do nothing (sometimes audio keeps going). It ran 3Dmark05 perfectly, but blacked out on 3Dmark06.
Then I found that Video stability test on benchmark mode windowed also created the blackout which let me easily monitor voltages and temps and the only strange thing happening was the 3.3 volts dropping like crazy. Strangest thing was that it took a nosedive to 1.4 volts territory to actually hang the machine.

Ok, I might not have the best PSU in the world, but it's a Hiper Type-R 580 Watt PSU. And it's rated 560Watt total and max 280 Watt on 3.3volt plus 5 volt. That is a higher concentration than nearly any other PSU for the lower voltages. For generally worse actually, but in this case it should have worked in favour for my situation.
I have:
Asus A8R32-MVP Deluxe motherboard.
AMD X2 4200+
Creative X-Fi Platinum
Club3D X1950pro
EDIT: I use 2x DS 1GB Kingston ValueRam CAS 3-3-3-8 (KVR400X64C3A/IG) DDR400
EDIT: 2x SS 512 MB A-Data CAS 3-4-4-8 (Don't know part-number) DDR400
EDIT: Totalling 3 GB Dual Channel 200 MHz (Or 400 for those inclined)
EDIT: Nothing overclocked at this moment.
1x SATA DVD-burner (Samsung)
3x SATA HD's (80GB,250GB and 320GB respectively)
2x IDE HD's (both 300 GB)
1x 3-slot SATA backplane with 80mm Fan, two slots used and one reserved.
2x 80mm Fans EDIT: No leds in any fan! :)
3x 120mm Fans
That is everything that can draw power. And I was concerned about the PSU I had lying on the shelf for this.
All of this is in a Coolermaster CMstacker original chassis.

I have the possibility of using dual PSU's in that case.
I aslo have a 360W Chieftec PSU lying around, and an Antec True Power 550 (The original one) available, but I don't trust Antec anymore.

I could go out and get a Seasonic S12 550 Watt tomorrow, but the stores I know that are open are unlikely to have anymore than that, hopefully the 650 though...

Problem is that Seasonic rates 3.3 and 5 volts total to max 170 watts, wouldn't that be worse for me?
What would happen if I use Two PSU's where I run the MB and DVD-burner from the Hiper, and run the PCI-e and HD's on the other. Is mixing like that vise?
Any suggestions on how to solve this?

Best Regards
Bo Eriksson

[jonnyGURU]

Where's your RAM?

The one thing that actually uses the 3.3V rail isn't listed in your post. :D

[Hutch]

His Video card uses the 3.3v rail also Jonny ;)

The 75W PCI-E slot gets some of its power from the 3.3v rail

[jonnyGURU]

Some. But not much. Let's just say, 3.3V is part of the spec, but I think it's use is almost nada.

The RAM is what's really using that 3.3V rail. If there's four sticks in there, try two. If that works, could be the PSU is bad (weak 3.3V rail) or the motherboard is bad.

Thing is, 3.3V and 5V are technically the same rail (which is why the 3.3V and 5V are always rated as "combined.") It's strange for the 3.3V to drop that much and not the 5V unless there's something wrong with the 3.3V rectifier.

Could be a motherboard issue. :(

[Hutch]

Try the Antec True Power 550 first and run 3dmark06 again and see if it happens. If it doesn't then it's probably your PSU. If it does it might be your mobo.

Also, if you dont think the true power 550 can handle all that, just hook up your primary HD and a couple of fans.

You also may be running too much for that PSU... 6 Drives, 5 fans (if they are led fans they use about double the power than regular ones) and that Video card is a Power hog.

[SDplus]

I Edited to your pleasure up there.
I might add I ran Memtest86+ for three cycles on that RAM-setup before installing OS, but also with only one HD in the rig at that time. But at least it should prove the RAM works.

Ok, so I start taking out the two 512 MB Sticks.

The thing about this is that when I ran a stress-test for the CPU there was warnings about it being memory intensive too, and that ran like a charm. I exclusively only have problems with some 3D-benches so far. It's extremely strange that I can run 3Dmark05 indefenitly it seems, while 3Dmark06 crashes quite quickly. But I will try taking two sticks out first.

Then I can actually disconnect the whole SATA backplane with switches on the front, which at least takes two drives and the SATA backplane out of the equation. Hmm, but the Benches are installed on one of those... I'll see about what I do...

The thing about the Antec supply is that I don't trust the Antec Brand anymore, so even if I might try it and it works, I will not keep that solution.

But still. How about the dual PSU solution? The Collermaster Stacker comes with a power-adapter that sees two that two standard ATX PSU's get's the power-on signal from the MB and with that it should play better, but on the other hand, not loading all rails on a PSU might be bad.

Best Regards
Bo Eriksson

[SDplus]

Ok, havn't run any test yet with only two sticks of ram, but I started the fan and voltage measurement softs now and 3.3 volts seem even worse now since it's on 2.77 volts and fluctuating already. And 12 volt is at 12.46, and the 5 volts is on 5.04. I think I will just go out and get a proper PSU right now, because there was one thing I forgot to mention...

Recently I rebuilt my 15 HD server at home and I tested the Hiper PSU then, but it didn't hold through even an OS install. I was suspecting it wasn't powerful enough, so the Hiper went to the shelf waiting for future rigs, and the Server got a Zero ripple Tagan 650W PSU. And now this. I think the Hiper is bad. And it's amazing this MB accepts the abuse and works this well. I will return. Now I only wonder if I will cough up for a M12 or a S12...

Best Regards
Bo Eriksson

[SDplus]

So, I'm back. I now have replaced the PSU. And this time it held the Video Card stability test longer but it did fail eventually. I also used another monitoring software this time. Speedfan. The interesting thing about that is that it presents a lot more than the other software did.
This is what is presented (Paranthesis added by me):

Vcore1: 1.39 Volts (Stable)
Vcore2: 3.30 Volts (Variies within +/- .01 Volts)
+3.3V: 2.80 Volts (Goes between 2.80 and 3.24 while in desktop, more later)
+5V: 5.05 Volts (I've seen 5.04 Volts too but seems rock steady)
+12V: 12.48 Volts (Never seen it move)
-12V: -16.97 Volts (Who cares?)
- 5V: -8.78 Volts (Bothers me not! :) )
+ 5V: 5.03 Volts (Probably the standby voltage)
Vbat: 3.20 Volts

Now, I'm back a 4 sticks of ram for this session, I also added a Cross-flow fan while at it. It actually shows a bit on temps. I don't think this is either Motherboard nor PSU (obviously), I'm leaning towards that Vcore2 is the real 3.3 volts values and that +3.3V thing is something else. It is an odd motherboard and so third party tools may not fully understand the values. Smartfan actually describes the very chip used for monitoring on this motherboard as an odd bloke, and that this version has "improved" support for it. And further, all my previous memory testing never failed, if 3.3 volts were to fluctuate badly like it still does (During testing a few minutes ago it actually went belov 1.20 Volts and up again before any crash occurred), even during regular desktop work, then those memorey tests would have gone bad. Even all the installation work I have done suggests there could not be a true power-issue here. I am quick on the draw to blame PSU's though snce it seems so common lately.

I think this is a pure graphics card issue, and I'm gonna put in a X1650pro card in there that doesn't even use the PCI-e power to prove it. :)

Further hints on a bad graphics card is that when I run a windowed 3D-test there is some corruption all over the screen, however, not when I run any full screen tests. I was hoping that was some other issue. But, luckily I have the X1650pro card to test with and I bought the X1950pro yesterday so returning it wont be a problem... :)

If this still turns out to be a bad Motherboard I'm gonna be unhappy. That is the kindof grief that takes time...

EDIT: Oh, I replaced the Hiper PSU with a TAGAN EasyCon 580W. I have one of those earlier in a much more equipped machine running rock stable, and it was way cheaper than the M12 that was the only Seasonic in stock where I went...So...

Best Regards
Bo Eriksson

[SDplus]

Probably the last installment in this saga.
It was the graphics card. System is rock steady passing all test (albeit somewhat slowly) with a X1650pro card installed. The X1950pro goes back for replacement tomorrow.

Best Regards
Bo Eriksson