Another "is this powersupply ok?" - First Build Questions

[whitebrow]

I'm planning a build very soon, and I'm eyeing the SilverStone ST50EF-Plus (from deadeyedata) to power it. Here are my anticipated specs:

E6300, i'd like to take it to 2.8
P5B-E
At least a 7900GS, though maybe a 7900GT
2GB DDR2 800
320GB 7200.10
One DVD Burner
Floppy/Card Reader

In my perfect world, I'd like to go to RAID 5 with 4 or so drives, plus another for the OS, and another DVD drive.

I already have the P180B that I'll be putting it into. This is my first build, so I have some questions that I hoped you guys could answer:

-This PSU is plenty, right? How powerful of a single card could it possible handle if I went to RAID 5, higher CPU speeds, etc?
-Are the cables on this supply long enough to reach the CPU connector on the top of the motherboard?
-I'd really like a modular supply so i don't have cables sitting between the lower fan and the PSU, but at this price are there better options than a NeoHE or the Sunbeam? If not modular, I'd like all sleeved cables, but I haven't seen those around this price. Is this Silverstone sufficiently better to go with it for the ~85 shipped from deadeye?
-How long is the warranty on this unit?

Other rig-building questions, if you could help me with them:
-The floppy/card reader is a usb unit, so will this fit the bill for the typical floppy unit in a modern pc? Basically flashing the BIOS if i need to? I'm a bit confused by it not connecting like a normal floppy, and the present difficulty of booting from usb devices like flash drives.
-Anyone know how much performance difference there will be between a 7900GS and GT when I overclock them? They're both supposed to do well, but I don't know if the GT justifies the ~$50 extra?


Thanks a lot guys, for helping and for all the great information here.

[jonnyGURU]

The PSU is plenty. Just couldn't tell you if the cables are long enough for a P180 since I don't use that case.

[CAD4466HK]

I'm planning a build very soon, and I'm eyeing the SilverStone ST50EF-Plus (from deadeyedata) to power it. Here are my anticipated specs:

E6300, i'd like to take it to 2.8
P5B-E
At least a 7900GS, though maybe a 7900GT
2GB DDR2 800
320GB 7200.10
One DVD Burner
Floppy/Card Reader

In my perfect world, I'd like to go to RAID 5 with 4 or so drives, plus another for the OS, and another DVD drive.

I already have the P180B that I'll be putting it into. This is my first build, so I have some questions that I hoped you guys could answer:

-This PSU is plenty, right? How powerful of a single card could it possible handle if I went to RAID 5, higher CPU speeds, etc?
-Are the cables on this supply long enough to reach the CPU connector on the top of the motherboard?
-I'd really like a modular supply so i don't have cables sitting between the lower fan and the PSU, but at this price are there better options than a NeoHE or the Sunbeam? If not modular, I'd like all sleeved cables, but I haven't seen those around this price. Is this Silverstone sufficiently better to go with it for the ~85 shipped from deadeye?
-How long is the warranty on this unit?

Other rig-building questions, if you could help me with them:
-The floppy/card reader is a usb unit, so will this fit the bill for the typical floppy unit in a modern pc? Basically flashing the BIOS if i need to? I'm a bit confused by it not connecting like a normal floppy, and the present difficulty of booting from usb devices like flash drives.
-Anyone know how much performance difference there will be between a 7900GS and GT when I overclock them? They're both supposed to do well, but I don't know if the GT justifies the ~$50 extra?


Thanks a lot guys, for helping and for all the great information here.

Dude, the 7900GS only has 20 pipes vs. 24 for the 7900GT,I could go on, but
that's enough;)

[GalvanizedYankee]

SPCR did three reviews of the P-180. One is a full build. Since this is your first build you must go over there and read / study it. Silverstonetek.com lists the cable lengths and SPCR does refer to what's needed with the P-180. You might need an extension or two, IDK. The motherboard you use will have some impact on cable length.
The Plus is a good unit, welcome to this board and good luck on your first build. Do not rush it, have fun! This might come in handy http://www.mechbgon.com/ :cool: mech offers build tips aplenty as well as securing your OS.

[whitebrow]

Thanks for the comments. In that SPCR review, he used a Seasonic S12 430 and I found that the CPU connector for that PSU is like 480mm long - the ST50EF's should be 550mm, so I think the length there will be ok.

As for the floppy/card reader, I just didn't look around for information about it enough. Its the Mitsumi FA404M, and the newegg picture only shows the front and the usb connector coming out the back. It does have a regular floppy and power connectors so I'm fine with it.

I'll try and get a 7900GT :D .


Have you guys had luck with SATA opticals? I'm thinking about going with the Lite-On that's on newegg because I have another PATA hard drive and once I've replaced it I'd like to be gone with PATA cables.

Also, are there any things I need to buy besides the main components I listed that I'll need when I get the build together? Just a little worried that when everything shows up I'll be missing something and have to wait for it. Thanks.

[GalvanizedYankee]

Read mech's first time builders guide and you might note something you have missed.
Mitsumi is about the bottom of the pile. Pay a few buck$ more for a Sony or whatever someone else here recommends.

[jonnyGURU]

Read mech's first time builders guide and you might note something you have missed.
Mitsumi is about the bottom of the pile. Pay a few buck$ more for a Sony or whatever someone else here recommends.

Mitumi. They actually make most of the drives for everyone else too.

When I did RMA/RTV for a tier 1, we actually sold more Mitsumi than Sony or Teac, yet had a greater RMA rate on the latter two brands.

As for the "pay a few buck$ more" comment, I've found the Sony drive are generally cheaper! Barring the kind that is a "card reader combo," Sony is typically $5 to $8 while the Mitsumi is generally $7 to $10.

[jonnyGURU]

BTW: Diablotek makes an internal floppy/card reader that's ALL USB. No floppy cable at all so it looks REALLY CLEAN inside the PC. Although you can boot off of it for BIOS flashes, etc. and it requires no additional drivers to function in Windows ME and up, it can not be used to F6 additional mass storage drivers when installing XP. :(

[whitebrow]

Well, the reason I thought I'd do the combo was in case I ever needed it to do floppy only things like RAID drivers and whatnot, otherwise I'd just get the reader or nothing at all. The only ones that i could find on newegg are the Mitsumi (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16821104104) and a Koutech (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813998514), which looks almost identical and is $10 more. I didn't like that the koutech was designed to plug into an external usb port and I don't really want to cut up cables.

I'm not able to find the Diablotek internal device, only an external one, which they have at tigerdirect, so I guess I'm still going with the Mitsumi.


Another question: I'd like to wait for ram prices to go down, but I'd also like to put this computer together while I'm home rather than wait till I'm back at school in a few weeks. Is it reasonable to get one stick of ram now and pick up a matching stick in a few months? I'm not real well read on dual channel; what are the chances that I won't get it if I don't buy a 2x1GB kit, but try and get two of the same sticks?

Thanks!

[jonnyGURU]

Hmm... I thought I saw the Diablotek internal USB somewhere....

[templar_m1a1]

Another question: I'd like to wait for ram prices to go down, but I'd also like to put this computer together while I'm home rather than wait till I'm back at school in a few weeks. Is it reasonable to get one stick of ram now and pick up a matching stick in a few months? I'm not real well read on dual channel; what are the chances that I won't get it if I don't buy a 2x1GB kit, but try and get two of the same sticks?


You should be able to use any 2 sticks of DDR2-800 (667, 533, 400 as long as they operate at the same frequency and have same memory size) from any manufacturer

(there couldbe a few exceptions), but to achieve best result use 2 memory sticks from the same manufacturer and with the same model #.

A dual channel kit is basically 2 sticks of RAM with the same model # and from the same manufacturer, so as long as you get 2 sticks with a matching model #s you

should not have problems with running them in dual channel (as long a mobo. supports advertised RAM voltages).

The only advantage I could think of when buying a kit is in case the manufacturer changes their chip supplier (Example: Micron => Sumsung, :crazy:etc.), which is highly unlikely,

and they will have different model # to signify the changes.

[Adamantine]

Corsair doesn't change the model number, part number, the SKU or any othe number that makes changes easily identifiable, only the revision number.

Like for example, the Dominator PC2-6400C4D rev 1.1 which was available before november had Micron D9GMH. Sometime around november they released rev 2.1 and rev 2.2 which has Promos junk on them. Rev 1.1 are no longer available. Promos junk IC's can be found on "value" ram for around $200. They didn't change the price of the new revision dominator's.

[templar_m1a1]

Like for example, the Dominator PC2-6400C4D rev 1.1 which was available before november had Micron D9GMH. Sometime around november they released rev 2.1 and rev 2.2 which has Promos junk on them. Rev 1.1 are no longer available. Promos junk IC's can be found on "value" ram for around $200. They didn't change the price of the new revision dominator's.
I wonder why? (Greed?:mad:)

Thanks for the heads up Adamantine, so some times it is better to buy RAM memory in a kit, if you can afford it. (we all learn something new every day :))

[whitebrow]

Thanks guys. I've been looking at ram for a bit, and I think I'm coming to the conclusion that I don't need as great of ram as I thought I did - I really wanted to get D9GMH's before, but I don't believe I'll be running my processor at a higher speed than 400*7 for the E6300. As long as my ram will do that, I'll be happy. Right now I'm thinking about doing a 1GB G.Skill stick, the light blue PK for like $125. I feel safer going with CAS4 then 5 cause I've heard some ram not even reaching its rated speed and I don't want that. I think ram prices are going down soon so I'll try to wait, but I would like to order in the next week.

[Adamantine]

I wonder why? (Greed?:mad:)

Thanks for the heads up Adamantine, so some times it is better to buy RAM memory in a kit, if you can afford it. (we all learn something new every day :))
Probably greed and they were most likely cutting into the harder to make, higher binned and higher profit dominators. Why buy the 8500C5 when the 6400C4D can clock just as high?

Other companies do it too, but Corsair has done it since they started using heatspreaders AFAIK. Some companies will actually publicly announce in forums that they changed IC's (or rather that they are or they are not using Micron).

Only buy ram in a kit becaues it's cheaper than getting them individually.
Thanks guys. I've been looking at ram for a bit, and I think I'm coming to the conclusion that I don't need as great of ram as I thought I did - I really wanted to get D9GMH's before, but I don't believe I'll be running my processor at a higher speed than 400*7 for the E6300. As long as my ram will do that, I'll be happy. Right now I'm thinking about doing a 1GB G.Skill stick, the light blue PK for like $125. I feel safer going with CAS4 then 5 cause I've heard some ram not even reaching its rated speed and I don't want that. I think ram prices are going down soon so I'll try to wait, but I would like to order in the next week.

You go for D9's because of quality, not just because you want to OC. D9's are pretty much guaranteed to have better reliability and stability than promos, power-something-crap and other junk IC's that aren't from a well established and well known manufacturer, i.e. Samsung, Infineon, Eplida, Micron, etc. I think Hynix is still being tarriffed to death so they're not really used, but they're cheap in Korea (I could get a 1GB stick for ~$110 or ~100,000 won). When I get some money I'm gonna get me a stick just to see if they can OC at all.

The junk IC's seem to have a far higher RMA rate when OC'ing which isn't a good sign when most are OC'ed out of the box (require more than 1.8v then they're already out of spec).

So, there's pretty much just 3 tiers available:
Tier 3: very, very common junk IC's due to availability
Tier 2: Eplida, being used less because they don't OC as well as D9's
Tier 1: Micron D9's which are speed binned as GCT/GMH/GKX (533/667/800). There are a couple other bin's that don't clock as well, but they still have Micron quality.

[whitebrow]

I'm struggling with my choices for ram and a video card. Would 1 stick of Ballistix 667 Cas3 be a reasonable compromise for now? I could find another stick in a month or two at a more reasonable price to get to 2GB.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820146558

And there are just too many videocards too close in price for me to pick. Can anyone help me with how these all compare to eachother? I have a general idea but it doesn't seem to be enough for me to make a choice that I'm confident in.

X1900GT - $150
7900GS - ~$150
x1950PRO - $190
7900GT - $200
7950GT 256MB - $200

I don't really want to go any higher than $200. So, I guess I'd like to know how the last three compare, how the first two compare, and if the two cheaper options might be better for the money... Thanks a lot for everyone's help so far!

[madmat]

7950GT FTW. It's got a faster core and ram than the 7900GT and for 1600X1200 gaming it spanks the monkey's ass. I've got one (albeit, a 512Mb version) and short of a used 7900GTX it's probably the most powerful single GPU DX 9 card in its price range.

Plus they don't seem to be having the issues that the factory OC'ed 7900GT's are having.

[whitebrow]

That's what I was hoping to hear. I haven't been able to find much about the 256MB versions but I was thinking it would be fine for the me as I'm at 1280x1024 right now and will be for a while. I'd like to move to a widescreen but I don't think that it'll be any time soon. I'm looking at the evga on newegg, its only 200.99 after a 15 MIR.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814130074

Thanks.

[madmat]

I have the eVGA 7950GT KO 512Mb. So far I've cranked it up to 690/1606 but YMMV as I'm running on water for both the core and ram.

[whitebrow]

Well, I just noticed an X1900XT on newegg for $200 after a little rebate, and this seems like the best buy to me now. Any opinions on connect3d for ATI cards? I'd also like to know anyone's opinion on that stick of ram, I'm pretty positive its D9GMH so I think it should reach 800 pretty easily.

[Nuxius]

Yeah, the Ballistix is D9GMH. I have the 10th Anniversary edition modules myself (which is basically the Ballistix DDR2 667 CAS3's with a different heatspreader).

Awesome stuff, if you plan to overclock them (of course, you already knew that ;)).

[Adamantine]

Well, I just noticed an X1900XT on newegg for $200 after a little rebate, and this seems like the best buy to me now. Any opinions on connect3d for ATI cards? I'd also like to know anyone's opinion on that stick of ram, I'm pretty positive its D9GMH so I think it should reach 800 pretty easily.
800 is kinda low man, that ram will probably get in the closer to 1000-1200, depending on your overclocking skill.

[whitebrow]

Well that's part of the reason I was debating going with less expensive ram rated at ddr2-800... I'm only really aiming to get this processor to 2.8ghz, so running ram 1:1 puts me at ddr2-800 speed. I know this ram will go a lot higher than that but that's all that I'm really looking for out of it.

[whitebrow]

Well, I'm ordering the PSU in like 5 minutes, and I'm planning to order the rest from newegg tomorrow... anyone have any final suggestions? Thanks for the help so far.

Here's what I'm getting:

E6300
P5B-E
Ballistix 1GB DDR2-667
connect3D X1900XT 256MB
Mitsumi Card Reader/FDD
7200.10 320GB SATA
Samsung SH-S183L SATA DVD Burner
Cheap Lite-On Keyboard that I'll use until I can get my hands on a model M

Silverstone ST50EF-Plus

Plus my G7, P180B and Samsung 731B

Starting to get real excited for this! As if I haven't been for the last month...

[templar_m1a1]

I hope you got the CPU cooling solution figured out (E6300 runs at 1.86Ghz and you are planing to run it up to 2.8Ghz, if I understood you correctly), because I am not sure if stock heat sink will be effective at 2.8Ghz.

But what do I know? ( Rhetorical question )

[whitebrow]

Well, I'm just going to do what I can with the stock cooler for now. If it runs happy at 2.8 then I'll stick with it, but if the temps get to high I'll go with a lower clock until I can get my hands on a Tuniq.

[SuperSix]

Well, I'm just going to do what I can with the stock cooler for now. If it runs happy at 2.8 then I'll stick with it, but if the temps get to high I'll go with a lower clock until I can get my hands on a Tuniq.

Tuniq - Bah...

Zalman 9500 FTW

[Sir_ReeL]

Personally I covet the 6600 with it's larger cache, but I'm probably trying to compensate for...something..._ReeL

[templar_m1a1]

I forgot to mention Arctic Silver #5, works a lot better than the thermal pad that comes with majority of coolers, here is a link: http://www.arcticsilver.com/as5.htm
Just make sure you read the application instructions, before you use it, it will make your life a bit simpler in a long run.

Let me know if there is something better than A.S.#5, because I am not 100% sure if it is still the best.

[SuperSix]

I forgot to mention Arctic Silver #5, works a lot better than the thermal pad that comes with majority of coolers, here is a link: http://www.arcticsilver.com/as5.htm
Just make sure you read the application instructions, before you use it, it will make your life a bit simpler in a long run.

Let me know if there is something better than A.S.#5, because I am not 100% sure if it is still the best.

That's all I use - there may be something better, but I haven't heard of anything.

[GalvanizedYankee]

templar, there are several that are easyer to apply / remove and are within a degree or two of AS-5.
CoolerMaster Premium
Zalman's OEM stuff
ThermalRight's OEM goo.
Arctic Ceramique

The real hard core swear by the newest Shin Etsu paste. I guess it is good...But ya gotta find it first. ;) I don't remember the product#.
Shin Etsu's older formula was very viscous and hard to apply, so it was sold to a TIM provider. This was used as a base for the first three in my above list.

There is a liquid metal based TIM out that works very well, but I would avoid it. It attacks aluminum, is conductive, is hard to apply / remove, is expensive and excess runs around the board like mercury... after hearing that I'm sure you will jump on it for 1.5C performance gain ;)

For warped HSs or chip heat spreaders a TIM pad may be prefered, siderwinder computers carries highly regarded Shin Etsu pads (AMD approved).
Warpage can be checked by laying a true straight edge across the chip / sink, then back lighting the area of inspection while looking for light leakage.

I have a large tube of AS-5, so that's what I use. One of the things I do is to pre-heat the sink(about 140F) before it's layed on the grain of rice sized dab of AS-5. Pre-heating is done with a heat gun, I guess a space heater could be used. It seems to squeeze the AS-5 better. *shrugs* Silly, but I do it.

[templar_m1a1]

Thanks GalvanizedYankee for reducing my ignorance on this subject, so basically there is nothing significantly better and safer ( 1.5*C is not worth the risk :crazy:)

[GalvanizedYankee]

My last HS purchase was a ThermalRight SI-128. It's base was concave by .0035". I had to lap it. This poor fit was much more important to correct than TIM choice. ThermalRight's OEM TIM or AS-5 is really makes very little difference. Proper fitting is first...Then TIM.
NEVER polish the surface with Braso or Mother's. Only TIM should meet the virgin surface :D Some ppl rub or polish with TIM before installing...I don't..but I'm not an expert.
If you want lapping or TIM tips, start a new thread and it can get kicked around pretty hard.

[whitebrow]

I'd love a 6600, but I'm sure that the 6300 will meet my needs and its a little more accommodating to the wallet's also. I don't want to wait till the E6320 and co. are out.

As far as the heat sink and AS5, I'm going to take my chances with what Intel provides for now. I've heard of good results on stock cooling, so if I can't get something I'm happy with then I'll move up to something that'll cool it better. Thanks everyone.

[whitebrow]

So, I just ordered it, or most of it. I looked at the money I had and made a few executive decisions and this is what I ended up getting:

- E6400 (Newegg prices on the 6300 are so high now, +1 multiplier was worth ~$29 to me)
- P5B-E
- Sapphire X1950XT - $220 AR! Real excited about this
- G.Skill DDR2-800 2GBPK, CAS4
- 7200.10 320GB

I also bought an IBM model M off ebay.

The SATA burners were out of stock, along with the Mitsumi FDD/Card Reader, and since I need this by friday I'll order those when they come back and have them shipped to my dorm. In the mean time I'll borrow them from a computer here at home as needed.

Thanks for the help you guys. I'll probably need to ask some more questions when I'm setting it up but I'll get a thread going in a more appropriate place for that.