Zippy 300W

[Phaedrus2129]

So I just got in my Zippy/Emacs AP2-5300F-RV2 300W ATX power supply. I got this for my Athlon XP system that lacked an ATX12V connector, because the Antec EA430 I had powering it only had a combined +5V and +3.3V rating of 130W, a bit too low, and was overvolting on the +12V (12.63V under load).



This power supply is a mix of surprisingly good, and disappointingly meh. I got it for $25+shipping at Jameco.com. It was packed well, but very plainly; no manual, no warranty card, no power cord, no screws, nothing. Well, what can you expect from an OEM product?

It's very obviously an old design. It lacks APFC, having a voltage selector switch. It also lacks an on/off switch. However, it did have a nice, shiny aluminum finish. Best of all, it has a +5V&+3.3V rating of 175W, perfect for my needs. Also, the UL# checks, Zippy corp.

Another indication that it's an old product (or at least intended for old computers) is the cable load-out. 1x20-pin, 6xMolex, 2xfloppy. That's it. No SATA, no ATX12V, no PCIe. Definitely intended for obsolescent systems.

Got it hooked up, first thing I noticed was the noise. I expected that, based on what I've heard about Zippy. The 80mm fan runs at 100% all the time, and it moves a good deal of air; sitting next to me, it's really helping cool me off, after sweating getting it installed (brain sweat, from trying to figure out which molex goes where oh wait ).

Voltage stability... Eeeehhh. I checked in both BIOS and with my Harbor Freight DMM.

BIOS:
+12V Idle: 12.33V
+5V idle: 4.85V


DMM:
+12V idle: 12.32V
+12V load: 12.40V
+5V idle: 4.98V
+5V load: 4.95V


Whichever one is right, it's definitely better than the 4.80/12.60 numbers I was seeing on the Antec. If the DMM is to believed then the +5V regulation is fantastic; though the BIOS number is mediocre. But I trust hardware over software most of the time, even if the hardware is cheap. I'd would like to see the +12V reigned in a little bit. But it isn't much outside 3%, so I shouldn't complain too much, should I? ;)



I'll post pictures soon, and if I feel like violating the warranty I might crack it open too.



Impressions so far? Can't really say. For the average user, the Rosewill 350W would *definitely* be a better choice, being the same price and with all the accessories and stuff provided, and most users don't care about ATNG build quality or Fuhjjyu caps. The voltage stability on the Zippy isn't as good as I was expecting (at least not on the +12V), and I'm taking y'alls word on it that Zippy is good. Until/unless I open it up, I'm going to suspend judgment.

[Phaedrus2129]

http://th09.deviantart.net/fs70/300W/i/2010/134/a/7/Zippy_p1_by_Phaedrus2401.jpg (http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2010/134/5/6/Zippy_p1_by_Phaedrus2401.jpg)

Oh joyous day, it's come!

http://th03.deviantart.net/fs70/300W/i/2010/134/0/7/Zippy_p2_by_Phaedrus2401.jpg (http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2010/134/2/4/Zippy_p2_by_Phaedrus2401.jpg)

175W on the +5V&+3.3V; just what the doctor ordered for ol' Demeter. Hm, stamp says "ATX 2.03", but the current distribution, design, and advertising on the site all indicate ATX 1.3. Oh well.

http://th09.deviantart.net/fs70/300W/i/2010/134/d/f/Zippy_p4_by_Phaedrus2401.jpg (http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2010/134/d/1/Zippy_p4_by_Phaedrus2401.jpg)

Ah, look at that lovely aluminum finish. Cables are unsleeved, but seem to be a decent gauge for a 300W PSU. Cables could be a few inches longer, though. Fine for a minitower, but even in a small mid-tower they're on the short side.

http://th04.deviantart.net/fs71/300W/i/2010/134/4/e/Zippy_p5_by_Phaedrus2401.jpg (http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/134/3/0/Zippy_p5_by_Phaedrus2401.jpg)

Sorry Antec, gotta use the right tool for the job.

http://th01.deviantart.net/fs70/300W/i/2010/134/0/e/Zippy_p7_by_Phaedrus2401.jpg (http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2010/134/5/d/Zippy_p7_by_Phaedrus2401.jpg)

Yup, this is for an old system, alright.

http://th05.deviantart.net/fs71/300W/i/2010/134/3/2/Zippy_p9_by_Phaedrus2401.jpg (http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/134/7/b/Zippy_p9_by_Phaedrus2401.jpg)

Forgive the cable management, there's only so much you can do.

http://th02.deviantart.net/fs70/300W/i/2010/134/b/2/Zippy_p10_by_Phaedrus2401.jpg (http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2010/134/4/1/Zippy_p10_by_Phaedrus2401.jpg)
Idle +5V
http://th01.deviantart.net/fs70/300W/i/2010/134/5/2/Zippy_p11_by_Phaedrus2401.jpg (http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2010/134/3/2/Zippy_p11_by_Phaedrus2401.jpg)
Idle +12V

http://th06.deviantart.net/fs71/300W/i/2010/134/f/d/Zippy_p13_by_Phaedrus2401.jpg (http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/134/9/3/Zippy_p13_by_Phaedrus2401.jpg)
Load +5V
http://th00.deviantart.net/fs71/300W/i/2010/134/c/e/Zippy_p12_by_Phaedrus2401.jpg (http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/134/a/f/Zippy_p12_by_Phaedrus2401.jpg)
Load +12V

[Oklahoma Wolf]

But I trust hardware over software most of the time, even if the hardware is cheap.

Software is never more accurate than a decent DMM.

This system runs off 5V - the 12V regulation isn't as important. Actually, having the 5V only drop by 0.02V between idle and load is quite impressive.

ATNG Rosewill over Zippy? Not in this lifetime.

[Phaedrus2129]

Software is never more accurate than a decent DMM.

This system runs off 5V - the 12V regulation isn't as important. Actually, having the 5V only drop by 0.02V between idle and load is quite impressive.

ATNG Rosewill over Zippy? Not in this lifetime.

Thing is I'm not sure if the DMM is decent, since it cost $4 at HBT and has an accuracy on that setting of "1%+/-2D", whatever that's supposed to mean.

The Rosewill might appeal more to less-savvy users. I mean, this came with no box, just the shipping box with brown paper padding (though the PSU wasn't against the sides at all; Jameco did a good job shipping), no warranty card or power cord or anything. Plus it's loud, and judging by other Zippy units probably none too efficient. The Rosewill does come with that stuff. Considering that after shipping the Zippy was ~$33... Yes, it's a better unit, but for someone who just needs a replacement for an old Athlon XP or Pentium 3 system and doesn't care about reliability... I dunno. I'd definitely prefer the Zippy based on what I've heard, but others might prefer the more fully "featured" Rosewill.

You're the expert though. :p

I did have to revise the +5V droop, it's .03V. Still pretty damn good though.

[Travis]

stamp says "ATX 2.03", but the current distribution, design, and advertising on the site all indicate ATX 1.3.

No ATX12V 1.3 requires a 300W unit to have 18A on +12V. ATX12V 1.2 requires 15A on +12V. So it is an ATX 2.03 unit.

[370forlife]

the Rosewill 350W would *definitely* be a better choice, being the same price and with all the accessories and stuff provided, and most users don't care about ATNG build quality or Fuhjjyu caps.

They will when they get BSOD's when the Fuhjjyu caps start going south in a year or so.

[Phaedrus2129]

They will when they get BSOD's when the Fuhjjyu caps start going south in a year or so.

True.

[Makalu]

well I think you should open it so we can see some photos and put that fan on a fan controller while you're at it or at least put a resistor inline to knock it down a volt or a volt and a half will make a big difference in the noise.

[Phaedrus2129]

Good idea. What type of resistor should I use? I don't have any handy except the ones on that TP-480.


EDIT: I've been advised to limit current instead of voltage, and to start by hooking a 1K potentiometer in series with the fan. I have a couple of 10K pots from a garbage guitar amp I took apart, think those would work?

[Makalu]

I'm not sure how that'd work but I think you'd first need to know how much current the fan draws now which should be pretty close to what the rating on the label says.

[Zero82z]

I have a couple of 10K pots from a garbage guitar amp I took apart, think those would work?
No, the resistance is far too high.

[Phaedrus2129]

Darn.


I tried to open it up just now, but the screws are in there really tight and my Phillips is a size too large. Going to pick up a couple smaller ones while I'm out tomorrow.

[Phaedrus2129]

So I opened it up, going to post pics in a second. I couldn't really open it up all the way, it's jam-packed. I could get any pics of the transient filter or primary; it's actually two PCBs there, fitting like a jigsaw. The top PCB, the primary heatsink, and the walls of the PSU make it impossible to get a view of that. But I did get a few pics of the secondary. The capacitors are a brand I'm unfamiliar with, "PCE-TUR". Apparently they're on the "bad caps" list, but have a very low failure rate?


The build quality is certainly better than the ATNG units I've seen, I'm convinced of that now. I was afraid that since this was a cheap, low-end unit it wouldn't have as good build quality as the high-end enthusiast units that showed up briefly a few years back. Good to see Zippy keeps up its quality even on the low-end.

[Phaedrus2129]

http://th08.deviantart.net/fs70/300W/i/2010/136/d/0/Zippy_d_1_by_Phaedrus2401.jpg (http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2010/136/5/a/Zippy_d_1_by_Phaedrus2401.jpg)

Dissection tools first. These five tools do 99% of what I need doing.

http://th06.deviantart.net/fs71/300W/i/2010/136/7/e/Zippy_d_2_by_Phaedrus2401.jpg (http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/136/c/1/Zippy_d_2_by_Phaedrus2401.jpg)
(love that aluminum)
http://th03.deviantart.net/fs70/300W/i/2010/136/f/8/Zippy_d_3_by_Phaedrus2401.jpg (http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2010/136/9/7/Zippy_d_3_by_Phaedrus2401.jpg)

But I had to borrow a tool from my step-dad; the screws are a bit of a funky size. They're self-tapping though, and that's nice.

http://th08.deviantart.net/fs71/300W/i/2010/136/6/8/Zippy_d_4_by_Phaedrus2401.jpg (http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/136/f/8/Zippy_d_4_by_Phaedrus2401.jpg)

This thing is pretty cool, being 8 screwdrivers and a flashlight. But the functionalities interfere a little bit; the engineers need to take it back to the drawing board for a bit.

http://th02.deviantart.net/fs71/300W/i/2010/136/1/5/Zippy_d_5_by_Phaedrus2401.jpg (http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/136/b/5/Zippy_d_5_by_Phaedrus2401.jpg)

It does serve its purpose though. Here's the right size.

http://th00.deviantart.net/fs71/300W/i/2010/136/1/8/Zippy_d_6_by_Phaedrus2401.jpg (http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/136/2/0/Zippy_d_6_by_Phaedrus2401.jpg)

I always hate breaking warranty stickers. I feel the same way about the tags on mattresses. I feel like--

http://th03.deviantart.net/fs71/300W/i/2010/136/1/7/Zippy_d_7_by_Phaedrus2401.jpg (http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/136/5/4/Zippy_d_7_by_Phaedrus2401.jpg)

Oops. :rolleyes:

[Phaedrus2129]

http://th06.deviantart.net/fs71/300W/i/2010/136/8/2/Zippy_d_8_by_Phaedrus2401.jpg (http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/136/2/1/Zippy_d_8_by_Phaedrus2401.jpg)
http://th08.deviantart.net/fs71/300W/i/2010/136/9/9/Zippy_d_9_by_Phaedrus2401.jpg (http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/136/1/0/Zippy_d_9_by_Phaedrus2401.jpg)
http://th01.deviantart.net/fs70/300W/i/2010/136/3/1/Zippy_d_10_by_Phaedrus2401.jpg (http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2010/136/8/3/Zippy_d_10_by_Phaedrus2401.jpg)

I don't know what I'm looking for here, so I took several pictures from different angles. The primary is completely hidden from view, and I don't want to risk damage by removing that PCB. The solder work that I can see looks pretty good, not as perfect as Delta, but definitely on the upper end of the scale. And this thing is jam-packed; this thing has more guts than any other 300W PSU I've ever seen. It's like someone crammed an 850W PSU's worth of hardware into a 300W PSU's case. I can see why they used an 80mm fan; no room for even a 92mm, let alone a 140mm.

http://th07.deviantart.net/fs71/300W/i/2010/136/8/9/Zippy_d_11_by_Phaedrus2401.jpg (http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/136/4/1/Zippy_d_11_by_Phaedrus2401.jpg)

PCE-TUR caps. I couldn't get a good view on all of them, but the five or so I looked at were all this brand. They're on the BadCaps bad caps list, but in a discussion thread there they were commented on as having a very low failure rate.

http://th05.deviantart.net/fs70/300W/i/2010/136/4/2/Zippy_d_12_by_Phaedrus2401.jpg (http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2010/136/8/f/Zippy_d_12_by_Phaedrus2401.jpg)

I couldn't remove the fan, due to a metal flap and some components. But it's from NMB, and is 12V and 0.30A and very, very loud.


Thoughts?

[Oklahoma Wolf]

Caps are CEC Holdings - Enermax and Superflower uses them constantly.

[Makalu]

that's a trip...looks to be group regulated but where does that brown wire go to? just over to the smaller PCB or is there a brown wire on the 20 pin connector too?

As far as the fan hmm for a resistor I think something around 200 ohms would be about right but the location of the fan doesn't look to be cooling the secondary off much...the vents on the side of the case there help with that though. Still think I would put it on a fan controller or variable resistor and find your own trade offs between heat and noise during times of load vs. idle and ambient temps too.

Zalman Fanmate 2 is cheap here:

http://www.amazon.com/Zalman-Fanmate-2-Speed-Controller-Retail/dp/B000292DO0

except for the shipping grrr. These have a wire wound power resistor and a pot inside...the resistor limits full bore to ~1V less than whatever the 12V line there is at and the pot adjusts downwards from there. Somewhere around here I have one that came with a Zalman CPU heatsink and if I knew where it was I'd open it and get the values off the components and you could hmmm well actually the cost of the parts is probably going to be just almost as much as what Amazon wants and then shipping from somewhere again so nevermind. lol

[Phaedrus2129]

I'm considering just leaving it as is. It's my workshop computer, so it doesn't really need to be quiet like a bedroom PC would. Too much hassle, fan controllers and resistors and pots and soldering aaagh.

[Makalu]

ah workshop computer...yeah that's different...you could hack into a 5V wire on a molex and do the +5 and +12 to get +7V trick but gotta make sure there's some other load on that same 5V wire to keep from sending current backwards on it. Or just replace the fan with something quieter...can just disable that fan and mount a replacement on the outside of the case there if you can't get that fan off. Ok, I'll stop with the ideas lol...thanks for the pics.