NEW CORSAIR PSU - GS600

[Phaedrus2129]

Hmmmm
http://www.frys.com/product/6251250?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG

At first I thought it was a mistake and that it was one of the CoolerMaster GX units. But... Hmmmm..


Oh, Redbeard?

[burebista]

Specs (http://www.corsair.com/products/gs600/default.aspx).

[Lemmy]

I put my money on this one : http://www.cwt.com.tw/english/2_product/1_detail.php?ID=1162

[Stefan Payne]

600 Watt @ 40°C ambient temperature
And just 80+ standard certified?!

So it's not a real good unit, rahter some cheap thing...
I put my money on this one : http://www.cwt.com.tw/english/2_product/1_detail.php?ID=1162
Me too.
Seems like Corsair doesn't use Seasonic for new designs...

[Makalu]

hmm yeah what is that thing? little tabs on the casing could mean Seasonic but not enough to go on and rated at 40C....price and efficiency isn't anything to write home about and not listed at 80+ (yet). What's the appeal other than "Gaming Series" and "no more hassle of flipping that tiny red switch to select the voltage input!" <eyeroll>

doesn't have the vents on the side like CWT units....

[EaGle1337]

it looks like a CWT PSH psu to me.

[Redbeard]

The GS series is basically a step below the TX series, 40C rated instead of 50C rated, 80 Plus white, as opposed to the newer TX unit (the TX950) which is Bronze rated, etc.

It's basically designed to be a lower cost unit that is still very stable but targeted at retail/gamer customers. Anybody who's heard of JonnyGuru.com is probably not the customer for the GS units.

Right now there is only one wattage, the 600W, which will be very attractive from a price standpoint, but will still meet all ATX specs, unlike most other products in its price range.

Nothing really sexy about GS (unless you think LED fans are sexy) quite honestly. Personally, I've got my eyes set on other targets. :)

[Phaedrus2129]

So are we talking over $80 or under? If it's over $80 the M12II units have got it beat to hell and gone. If it's at, say $70, it might finally introduce something that's better than OCZ in that price range.

[jonnyGURU]

The GS series is basically a step below the TX series, 40C rated instead of 50C rated, 80 Plus white, as opposed to the newer TX unit (the TX950) which is Bronze rated, etc.

I thought VX was under TX?

[Phaedrus2129]

I thought VX was under TX?

I'd consider them more an extension of it. They're lower wattage than TX, but the VX550 gets comparable performance. The VX450 and its little cousin the CX400... Well, the SeaSonic group regulated designs are decent, but I wouldn't compare them to a CWT PSH in that wattage range, not when it comes to an enthusiast PSU.

[jonnyGURU]

So many prefixes.. if Corsair's sales people are anything like BFG's, they're going to start bitching and moaning.

[Proximon]

I'm certainly not above recommending OCZ PSUs for low budget builds, so if this series competes with those it will be very welcome.

[Travis]

RedBeard do you think so many prefixes are easy to memorize, especially for customers? Can you tell the differences between CX, VX, TX and GS series except warranty?

[Makalu]

well I love a good mystery and sometimes even crave it but dangit Redbeard I give up...who's the OEM?

[Redbeard]

VX was, in retrospect, a mistake. It should have just been TX. It's spec'd exactly the same and they perform similarly. There's almost no differentiation.

As for the OEM, I believe the GS is a CWT without the restriction on all-japanese caps that the TX and HX have.

We have not given up on Seasonic, though. We are still a partner with them and they are producing units for us as we speak.

Right now the prefix breakdown is going to be like this:

CX - entry level, very cheap units. Will meet all ATX specs.
GS - Gamer line. LED fans, higher wattage. Will meet all ATX specs at 40C. 3 year warranty.
TX - Overclocker/enthusiast line. Good price performance ratio. Better warranty (5 year)
HX - High-end line. Better efficiency (bronze or higher), better warranty (7 year), semi-modular cables.

I think the key to helping our sales guys, Jonny, was giving them different units to compete with the competition. Before, we'd get a lot of feedback that, at retail, the units that moved were very different than at etail, so we took a look and changed some SKUs around and added some new ones.

Last year was very good for us with PSUs, this year we're hoping to do better.

Don't worry, we haven't forgotten about the high-end guys. It's where we started and we will not ignore it.

[Phaedrus2129]

Well, good to see you're refreshing the lineup at least.

All I want to see is the TX/VX 550-850W units replaced with something more competitive with the Antec True Power New units, and the HX1000W discontinued and replaced with something more worthy of the praise that unit gets. It isn't bad, mind, but I think it's clear after some research that it can't keep up with the similarly priced competition.

[Hondacity]

Don't worry, we haven't forgotten about the high-end guys. It's where we started and we will not ignore it.

this is what i care about :D

i hope the new one is like the enhance 1200 gold...

very high efficiency and super tight voltage regulation :D

[Stefan Payne]

Why just plain 80+?!
Why not bronze?!

Since some "other guys" won't sell anything under bronze...

[Phaedrus2129]

Why just plain 80+?!
Why not bronze?!

Since some "other guys" won't sell anything under bronze...

I'd rather have a unit that's 80+ and has good ripple suppression, than one that's 80+ gold and has crap ripple suppression.

[mdk777]

Personally, I've got my eyes set on other targets.

Sounds like we are finally in for the "summer of Gold shoot-out":D

[Makalu]

Sounds like we are finally in for the "summer of Gold shoot-out":D

or Platinum since Arctic Cooling snagged the 90plus.org domain name quite awhile ago.

[Zero82z]

Why just plain 80+?!
Why not bronze?!

Since some "other guys" won't sell anything under bronze...
Because it's a cheap lower-end PSU. Or it's supposed to be anyway; right now $100 is pretty expensive for this.

[Stefan Payne]

Like the Seasonic S12II-Bronze? ;)

I don't see any reason for just plain 80+...

[Lemmy]

I have to agree with Phaedrus2129, for $70 maybe, but $100...
The Antec TP550W is $90 over at Newegg, the VX550 is $92...

[mdk777]

$100 price point highly competitive indeed if you are willing to wait for deals.

Antec new tp 750 for less than 100 delivered after MIR


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371025

[Zero82z]

Like the Seasonic S12II-Bronze? ;)

I don't see any reason for just plain 80+...
This PSU should really be closer to $60 or $70. Then it would make sense; for $100, it's not even close to competitive.

[HOOfan_1]

I doubt that it will be selling for $100 by the time it actually comes out, considering the TX750 usually sells for around $110.

[ef3393]

when will a good review be available?
________
Justin Bieber (http://justinbieberfan.info/)

[Stefan Payne]

I doubt that there will be any.

[HOOfan_1]

I doubt that there will be any.

The only Corsair PSUs I haven't seen reviewed at the usual places are the CX400 and the VX450 (which was in Europe only and not long lived).

I am sure when it becomes available that Corsair will send the GS600 out for review at the usual places.

[Zero82z]

The only Corsair PSUs I haven't seen reviewed at the usual places are the CX400 and the VX450 (which was in Europe only and not long lived).
You mean the HX450. And Paul did review the CX400.

[HOOfan_1]

You mean the HX450. And Paul did review the CX400.

yeah the HX450...although my guess is that Stefan is indicating that the GS600 may get reviews....but they won't be good. (i.e. it won't score well)

[Zero82z]

I'm sure it will perform adequately, though probably not exceptionally. Stefan's negativity is probably due to the fact that he's an anti-Corsair fanboy, but I doubt that Corsair would release a "bad" PSU.

[cypherpunks]

The GS series is basically a step below the TX series, 40C rated instead of 50C rated, 80 Plus white, as opposed to the newer TX unit (the TX950) which is Bronze rated, etc.

It's basically designed to be a lower cost unit that is still very stable but targeted at retail/gamer customers.

Ah, okay, basically a higher-rated CX400. Makes sense.

Please, tell your marketing guys:
One reason I recommend Corsair PSUs is that there are no bad ones. That makes recommending a Corsair PSU vastly easier that explaining how to shop for other brands. Please, don't ever lose this. Regardless of how much money you could make this year by putting your name on a piece of crap.
Please don't be shy about explaining "what's wrong with this PSU." You can express it in terms of upselling, "For higher quality try our TX550, which also provides...", but already I have to complicate the above explanation with a caveat about the CX400. Me no likey.[/li]

[Phaedrus2129]

Not a higher rated CX400; that's a SeaSonic group regulated design. It's a CWT PSH, so more a cheaper VX550 than anything else.

[Redbeard]

Ah, okay, basically a higher-rated CX400. Makes sense.

Please, tell your marketing guys:
One reason I recommend Corsair PSUs is that there are no bad ones. That makes recommending a Corsair PSU vastly easier that explaining how to shop for other brands. Please, don't ever lose this. Regardless of how much money you could make this year by putting your name on a piece of crap.
Please don't be shy about explaining "what's wrong with this PSU." You can express it in terms of upselling, "For higher quality try our TX550, which also provides...", but already I have to complicate the above explanation with a caveat about the CX400. Me no likey.[/li]


The marketing guy reads this forum almost as much as I do. Be assured of that. Heh.

[Ronbo]

The marketing guy reads this forum almost as much as I do. Be assured of that. Heh.

Glad to hear that! I have never had a problem reccomending Corsair PSU's, I only have a hard time getting people to buy big enough ones.

[Blackbird_CaD_]

I just hope that Corsair releases a successor to the HX1000 soon..
HX1000 is getting so old, for example the HX850 is much more modern, also the competitors have more modern high end PSUs available, and Corsair doesn't have any PSU over 1000W, the competitors have.
I'm actually waiting a bit for a successor to HX1000.

[Spectre]

And Paul did review the CX400.

Yeah people may have missed it since it was in a group review:

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2009/02/16/entry_level_power_supply_roundup/

[ferky]

The marketing guy reads this forum almost as much as I do. Be assured of that. Heh.
Could you confirm this statement below or give an estimate of the stable price (somewhere inbetween VX550/TX650 ... more or less)?
... so more a cheaper VX550 than anything else.


I just hope that Corsair releases a successor to the HX1000 soon..
HX1000 is getting so old, for example the HX850 is much more modern, also the competitors have more modern high end PSUs available, and Corsair doesn't have any PSU over 1000W, the competitors have.
I'm actually waiting a bit for a successor to HX1000.
Everybody is talking about how HX1000 isn't strong enough, isn't big enough (I wonder if they are really referring to the PSU or something else :D), or that it isn't special enough.

OK maybe it hasn't got the "rippless" perfection or the flawless regulation, but did anyone pushed it to it's limits (on real configurations and not with those DOAs or bad samples)?

That's a powerfull PSU (1000+W or even 1200+W) and it's no biggie if it's efficiency is 85% instead of 87%, is it ...

[Redbeard]

Could you confirm this statement below or give an estimate of the stable price (somewhere inbetween VX550/TX650 ... more or less)?


Can't confirm price, but it's probably going to be a lot less than people think. Obviously it's going to have to sell for significantly less than the TX650.

[Phaedrus2129]

Everybody is talking about how HX1000 isn't strong enough, isn't big enough (I wonder if they are really referring to the PSU or something else :D), or that it isn't special enough.

It's overpriced. At $200 I'd consider it an ok value, and at $180 it would be great. But it's $235 on Newegg. And since its performance is worse than the TX950 ($150), you end up paying $85 more for modular cables and worse performance and an extra 50W.

OK maybe it hasn't got the "rippless" perfection or the flawless regulation, but did anyone pushed it to it's limits (on real configurations and not with those DOAs or bad samples)?

... You *are* on JonnyGURU.com, you know.
http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story2&reid=89

70mV on the +12V is no small number. And ripple is one of a power supply's most important metrics of quality. Read my article to understand why: http://www.overclock.net/power-supplies/719397-ripple-its-effects-overclocking.html

That's a powerfull PSU (1000+W or even 1200+W) and it's no biggie if it's efficiency is 85% instead of 87%, is it ...

Because people end up paying a high premium for what is, to be absolutely frank, an inferior product.

[C'DaleRider]

70mV on the +12V is no small number. And ripple is one of a power supply's most important metrics of quality. Read my article to understand why: http://www.overclock.net/power-supplies/719397-ripple-its-effects-overclocking.html






Actually, 70mV is perfectly acceptable given that unit's focus.

And personally, I prize voltage stability at 1% over uber low ripple suppression, given all things being equal.

I'll take 40mV of ripple if the voltages are held to <1% deviation. But, honestly, if voltages are that tightly held, usually ripple is controlled well, too.

Hugely wandering voltages on heavy loads during heavy overclocking have more impact on holding overclocks stable than ripple that's within ATX spec.

[Stefan Payne]

And personally, I prize voltage stability at 1% over uber low ripple suppression, given all things being equal.
Why is that?!
Why do you think that the voltage regulation is more important than the ripple suppression?

[jonnyGURU]

It's still within spec. If it's within spec, no harm. So if it's within spec AND it has better voltage regulation, I agree with C'DaleRider.

[Hondacity]

Actually, 70mV is perfectly acceptable given that unit's focus.

And personally, I prize voltage stability at 1% over uber low ripple suppression, given all things being equal.

I'll take 40mV of ripple if the voltages are held to <1% deviation. But, honestly, if voltages are that tightly held, usually ripple is controlled well, too.

Hugely wandering voltages on heavy loads during heavy overclocking have more impact on holding overclocks stable than ripple that's within ATX spec.

+1 thats why i have the mj1100 :D

its a good 500w psu LOL

[Redbeard]

I think ripple is one of those things that gets tested as an example of how solid a PSU is. As long as the ripple is within the ATX spec you won't see a problem. If it's WELL within ATX spec (say, 70mV instead of the allowed 120mV on the +12V) then it's great, but it's really not going to do much more for you. 40mV vs. 60mV ripple really offers no performance difference to the end-user. At most, you might argue that it will stress components slightly less. (Video card power circuitry, maybe?)

But really, the voltage regulation is more important to the devices. Even though all components use their own vreg circuitry (PSU produces +12V, motherboard steps down to 1.3V for CPU, etc), that circuitry works better when the voltage regulation is stable under load.

So, in my opinion, all these "adjustable rail" things don't make much difference from a stable overclocking standpoint. I'd rather have a PSU that's stable at 12.00V (or even 11.9V) under all conditions than one that allows me to turn the voltage up to 12.2V or something. (especially if that 12.2V is 12.5V when it's not loaded)

Ripple/noise, voltage regulation, and efficiency are the only real metrics we see in PSU reviews because the rest is pretty difficult to determine or completely obvious. Length of cables? Number of connectors? That stuff's on the box and is rarely lied about. Wattage output isn't even lied about amongst the high-end guys anymore, as long as they dictate how they measure the output. Fan noise level is tough to measure unless you've got a delicate setup, but most of the time the fan in the PSU is going to be a lot less noisy than the fan on your graphics card, so you won't hear it anyway.

But these are just opinions, of course.

[ferky]

Can't confirm price, but it's probably going to be a lot less than people think. Obviously it's going to have to sell for significantly less than the TX650.
Thanks :)

It's overpriced. At $200 I'd consider it an ok value, and at $180 it would be great. But it's $235 on Newegg.
Price is very dependable on the place/store where you're buying ...
And since its performance is worse than the TX950 ($150), you end up paying $85 more for modular cables and worse performance and an extra 50W.
Those two are very different PSU ... one is a very powerfull PUC (1200+W) design and the other is an DSG sub 1kW PSU.

So yes, if I needed 1200+W I'd go with HX.

BTW you really can't compare prices of modular vs. non-modular PSU ... it's a bit tricky.
... You *are* on JonnyGURU.com, you know.
http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story2&reid=89
Really? ... I thought this was Secret grandma's recipes ... oh well nwm
70mV on the +12V is no small number. And ripple is one of a power supply's most important metrics of quality. Read my article to understand why: http://www.overclock.net/power-supplies/719397-ripple-its-effects-overclocking.html
Thanks, but I don't need an explanation of unwanted wave forms ... I've been studying them for more than 10y ;)

Full load with 70mV is a bit far from 120mV (which is the "dangerzone") so it seems there's no problem there (as couple of people stated before me).
Because people end up paying a high premium for what is, to be absolutely frank, an inferior product.
Oh well ... 90% of people don't mind that 70mV (@1kW) ripple .... it's just not that dangerous.

[Phaedrus2129]

No need to tell me something I already know... 70mV is not dangerous and I didn't say it was, folks. It comes down to whether you want +/-2% regulation at 40mV, or +/-1.5% regulation at 70mV. You can't really compare all that well. And since the TX950 gets better efficiency as well, I call it a better unit than the HX1000, especially since the majority of people buying one won't be pulling anywhere near 1000W. I've seen a guy with an E8400 and 9800GT running on an HX1000. His ignorance aside, I think that for the majority of users the TX950 offers a better value than the HX1000. Because for most users, a DSG is better suited to their needs than a PUC, and for $85 less (and Newegg's price is pretty standard; most places sell for more) there's just no comparison in my book. And modular cables? +10% over non-modular is good in my book. Consider the HX650 vs. TX650, M12II 520 vs. S12II 520, etc.


Basically, what it boils down to in this performance range is pure opinion. I think the HX1000 is overpriced and overpraised. It isn't a bad unit, but it has a reputation in a lot of circles as being the best power supply ever when it is not.

[ferky]

I've seen those DSG's quitting on some overclocked i7 (>4GHz) with 295 GTX in SLI (also OC) ... they're just not strong enough.

That's where PUC platform steps in for Corsair.

BTW I know there are areas where DSG is more efficient/better in converting AC to DC then PSH or PUC, but when it comes to pure power on OC'ed highend systems ... I'll pass.

[C'DaleRider]

Why is that?!
Why do you think that the voltage regulation is more important than the ripple suppression?


Well, since Redbeard pretty much summed it all up, the simple answer is yes.


I fell into the "ripple, ripple, ripple" camp for a while, as a lot of people do. But then, as I began to OC heavier and heavier, I began to notice my OC's were more stable with power supplies that provided more stable voltages vs. those that simply excelled in ripple control.

And, after all, we're speaking of such small voltage irregularities here that the difference between a 35mV ripple/noise generation and a 50mV ripple/noise generation is irrelevant for practical purposes.

Instead, a power supply that drifts its +12V voltage regulation by 3% is definitely going to have a much more negative effect on an OC stability than the amount of ripple on the rails.

And do you think the component manufacturers, be they cpu makers, motherboard makers, memory manufacturers, gpu manu's., et al, aren't aware of ripple being present on the rails that feed their respective components? They, too, are working within the ATX spec when developing their components......they essentially have to work within the lowest common denominator, which is their part may be subjected to the max allowed ATX specification for every rail that powers their particular part. So their parts are designed to survive such abuse.

Now, I'm not advocating buying junk in any respect. I've just adjusted my list of metrics I buy power supplies by.

First, voltage regulation.

Second, transient overshoot control.

Third is ripple/noise control.

Fourth is efficiency.

Last is noise.....which outside of PCP&C seems to be a not much of a problem at all.

Of course, there is price....an all important metric, but important only to the pocketbook and wife. But since she was recently treated to a $1500 Janome quilting sewing machine and a $1000 sewing cabinet and I've got a tad of free reign right now. ;)

But months ago, I "settled" for a Corsair 850HX because of a great deal I got on it at Microcenter and it fit where it had to go. And since it does hold 1% regulation up to 700W of draw, about my max, I'm not complaining.

Are there better out there? Yes, but I'm not going to put up with PCP&C "silence" or the horrendous cost of a Signature 850....and I already had one of those die on my two days into use.

So, it's all compromise, but to me, regulation trumps ripple.

[370forlife]

You also have to remember even a piece of crap with terrible voltage regulation can bring in spec ripple until it blows up. It isn't hard to build a psu with low ripple, it's hard to build a psu with rock solid voltages. Good voltages typically mean a good manufacturer who will most likely also keep ripple in spec.

[Smirnoff]

CX - entry level, very cheap units. Will meet all ATX specs.


Speaking of which, it going to be just the 400W for the forseeable future in that class?

[Redbeard]

Speaking of which, it going to be just the 400W for the forseeable future in that class?

Can't comment on that, sorry.

[Zero82z]

Can't comment on that, sorry.
So that's a no, then :p.

[Ninja7]

I think this GS 600 is a good idea, even though i dont like LEDs, Corsair does need one for people that do and there are quite a few that still do, and it has a switch too.

Price could be better (its too close to the VX550). Though im guessing the target is to provide something for those gamers who would say be building a setup using an Nvidia GTX470 and needs a decent PSU.
Being rated at 40c isnt a train smash, it will still do the job.

[HOOfan_1]

So that's a no, then :p.

Thank Spectre for the tip

CX430, CX500, CX600, GS700, GS800, HX1200 (http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/template/LISEXT/1FRAME/showpage.html?name=QQGQ8.E307858&ccnshorttitle=Power+Supplies,+Information+Technolo gy+Equipment+Including+Electrical+Business+Equipme nt+Certified+for+Canada+-+Component&objid=1078378890&cfgid=1073741824&version=versionless&parent_id=1073992443&sequence=1)

[Spectre]

Yeah looks like the UL let the cat out of the bag. I have asked Corsair but heard nothing back so the only other information will likely come when they actually release them.

[anonemus]

Can't wait for the CX600 :)

[Hondacity]

Thank Spectre for the tip

CX430, CX500, CX600, GS700, GS800, HX1200 (http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/template/LISEXT/1FRAME/showpage.html?name=QQGQ8.E307858&ccnshorttitle=Power+Supplies,+Information+Technolo gy+Equipment+Including+Electrical+Business+Equipme nt+Certified+for+Canada+-+Component&objid=1078378890&cfgid=1073741824&version=versionless&parent_id=1073992443&sequence=1)

hx1200 looks like hx1000....only the VA changed....

[Phaedrus2129]

If there's going to be a CX600 then the GS600 can't be too cheap. I can't imagine a CX600 being less than $60 unless it's total crap, and the VX550 is at $90, which means the GS600 has to fit into the $70-$80 slot.

[anonemus]

If the difference between the CX600 and GX600 is the blue LED, I'm going for the CX version...if it's not a total crap, of course :)

CX = Cheap?
VX = Value?
GS = Good enough?
TX = T?
HX = High-end?

[EaGle1337]

GS = Gaming Series. CX is just the lowest end, Vx was a mistake so i don't think we'll see any more of them, probably replaced by the Gs. T X is the mid range to high end, and the hx psus get all the bells and whistles.

[anonemus]

I know that EaGle; I'm just trying to associate words with the codes for easier reference when I recommend Corsair's lineup to friends :)

[Redbeard]

CX - CheapX
GS - Gaming Series
VX - Nerve gas
TX - Texas
HX - A type of curse with the E removed

[anonemus]

Ah...so its CX, GS then VX. This is the market segmentation ranking, no?

BTW, I didn't say this, Readbeard, but someone in a local forum commented that a Corsair GS PSU that isn't modular should be called GAYming Series instead :crazy:

[Phaedrus2129]

You know, thinking about it, the GS600 sounds like a Rocketfish 700W v2. ~550W CWT PSH (as rated at 50*C), blue LED fan, mixed caps.

Just with an $80 pricetag instead of $120, and a non-shitty warranty. Give it modular cables and BAM.

Though come to think of it, competing with Best Buy products in the enthusiast market is kind of like competing with a crippled boy.

[Smirnoff]

VX - Nerve gas


Damn... That's why all those people I built those gaming rigs for a while back are dead. :eek:

[dangman4ever]

CX - CheapX
GS - Gaming Series
VX - Nerve gas
TX - Texas
HX - A type of curse with the E removed

LOL!

[Phaedrus2129]

Why, oh why is the HX1200 looking like another PUC unit?


Enhance 1200W. 140mm fan. Capacitors inside the unit instead of on the cables. ~$250. Make it happen and I will love Corsair forever (or until you guys screw up...).

[Stefan Payne]

Corsair seems to have switched completely to CWT, just some the "old stuff" is still Seasonic...

[Redbeard]

Corsair seems to have switched completely to CWT, just some the "old stuff" is still Seasonic...

This isn't true. Our current HX650 is Seasonic-based, and future products may be Seasonic-based as well.

[Redbeard]

Why, oh why is the HX1200 looking like another PUC unit?


Don't get ahead of yourself. :)

[Hondacity]

the ul listing is prolly wrong :D

i wonder if corsair will come out first against the cm-spg1200....

waiting is so hard :D

[Phaedrus2129]

Don't get ahead of yourself. :)

The current specs listed on the Corsair PSU UL page match exactly the current specs listed here: http://www.cwt.com.tw/english/2_product/1_detail.php?ID=957 for the PUC-1200 80+/80+ Bronze. 20A, 20A, 36A, 36A. That and strong ties to CWT already make it seem pretty likely.

[Redbeard]

The current specs listed on the Corsair PSU UL page match exactly the current specs listed here: http://www.cwt.com.tw/english/2_product/1_detail.php?ID=957 for the PUC-1200 80+/80+ Bronze. 20A, 20A, 36A, 36A. That and strong ties to CWT already make it seem pretty likely.


That's completely understandable.

[Phaedrus2129]

That's completely understandable.

You're toying with me. :p

Either it is a PUC and you're just under NDA or whatever, or it's another platform and just happens to have the same current limits. Either way I suppose we'll find out eventually.

[Redbeard]

You're toying with me. :p

Either it is a PUC and you're just under NDA or whatever, or it's another platform and just happens to have the same current limits. Either way I suppose we'll find out eventually.

I can't really comment on unannounced products, obviously. But a 1200W bronze unit that's multi-rail doesn't fit into our current line-up at all, if you look at the rest of the products.

[Lemmy]

Most likely it's a DSR.
Still, a 1200W single rail PSU doesn't sound safe, that's like more than 90 amps on one rail :crazy:

[Spectre]

Most likely it's a DSR.
Still, a 1200W single rail PSU doesn't sound safe, that's like more than 90 amps on one rail :crazy:

Andyson has 117A single rail designs. And really it is 6 one way half a dozen the other for all intents and purposes.

[Stefan Payne]

This isn't true. Our current HX650 is Seasonic-based, and future products may be Seasonic-based as well.
That's what I meant with "some "old stuff"...

Since it's just a little tuned HX620...

[Zero82z]

I can't really comment on unannounced products, obviously.
Sure you can. You're just not allowed to :p.

[ferky]

I can't really comment on unannounced products, obviously. But a 1200W bronze unit that's multi-rail doesn't fit into our current line-up at all, if you look at the rest of the products.
I can think of one that fits better ... 80Plus Gold, 1000-1200W (don't matter, they are all capable - it's just marketing), 2x 50/60A @12V :D

Sounds good, doesn't it ... :)

[ef3393]

See picture
http://www1.oc.com.tw/forums/forumview.asp?id=5&msgid=680
http://www1.oc.com.tw/forums/forumview.asp?id=5&msgid=680

PSHII is a cost effective PSH design (single layer PCB, cheaper capacitor)
almost the sample cirsuit could expect a good ripple and cross regulation performance
________
Ecig Forum (http://www.ecigarettes123.com/)

[Spectre]

almost the sample cirsuit could expect a good ripple and cross regulation performance

The PSH series has never been known for that (good ripple control) before. What design changes are there that make you think that will be the case now?

[ef3393]

The PSH series has never been known for that (good ripple control) before. What design changes are there that make you think that will be the case now?

I just think the 750/850TX perform good or at least not bad and it is a PSH design!!
________
Kawasaki ar50 (http://www.cyclechaos.com/wiki/Kawasaki_AR50)

[Phaedrus2129]

I just think the 750/850TX perform good or at least not bad and it is a PSH design!!

100mV ripple at 750W is not what I call good performance. Mediocre would be my choice. PSH at over 650W isn't that hot, especially in the ripple department.

[Makalu]

oh man now I want one just for the Yate Loon D14BH 140mm high speed ball bearing fan which nobody seems to sell by itself.

[Spectre]

I just think the 750/850TX perform good or at least not bad and it is a PSH design!!

Not bad isn't good, and the PSH is no longer a good design. It was 2 or 3 years ago but its time has come and gone for all but the most bargain priced of units...and even then there are better designs these days.

[Phaedrus2129]

Not bad isn't good, and the PSH is no longer a good design. It was 2 or 3 years ago but its time has come and gone for all but the most bargain priced of units...and even then there are better designs these days.

Eh, it still makes decent low-to-midrange PSUs. Better than some other designs; I think I'd pick a PSH over most FSP Epsilon units.

Actually, thinking about it, the new Corsair GS series could be an acknowledgment of that fact, retiring the PSH platform to midrange units, and updating the high-end to be entirely DSG and other newer platforms! Or maybe they'll start considering the M12D platform, its most recent incarnations are starting to look slightly more attractive than DSG, though just by a hair.


But... I'll believe it when I see it.

[anonemus]

CX - CheapX
GS - Gaming Series
VX - Nerve gas
TX - Texas
HX - A type of curse with the E removed

AX - Alpha :)

So, Redbeard, Computex is over, but no GS600 announced/launched, right? :(

[Redbeard]

AX - Alpha :)

So, Redbeard, Computex is over, but no GS600 announced/launched, right? :(

GS600 was a soft launch before computex. Nothing too exciting. The target for GS600 probably doesn't spend a lot of time thinking about Computex.

[HOOfan_1]

GS600 was a soft launch before computex. Nothing too exciting. The target for GS600 probably doesn't spend a lot of time thinking about Computex.

If they don't think about computex...do they think about building their own computers?

[Phaedrus2129]

If they don't think about computex...do they think about building their own computers?

I actually didn't hear about Computex until this year's. I'm a relative newcomer, and didn't get into the cutting edge stuff until recently. Though I did attend last year's SIGGRAPH when it was in town; good stuff there.

[Stefan Payne]

GS600 was a soft launch before computex. Nothing too exciting. The target for GS600 probably doesn't spend a lot of time thinking about Computex.

Why that?
Do you think the GS600 isn't that good?
Have you sent out some units for testing?

[Proximon]

Why that?
Do you think the GS600 isn't that good?
Have you sent out some units for testing?

Don't go putting Redbeard on the spot now, or he'll stop visiting :p

[C'DaleRider]

Don't go putting Redbeard on the spot now, or he'll stop visiting :p


It's not that, it's that Payne doesn't understand the concept or term "target demographics", otherwise he wouldn't ask the question.

[MrWicked1968]

Travis and the gang at ITOCP have reviewed one:

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.itocp.com%2Fhtmls%2F43%2Fn-1143-5.html&sl=auto&tl=en

[anonemus]

GS600 was a soft launch before computex. Nothing too exciting. The target for GS600 probably doesn't spend a lot of time thinking about Computex.

I see. I guess most companies there showed their best new stuff. Are you at liberty already to say when the GS-series will be available in the market?

[Redbeard]

Why that?
Do you think the GS600 isn't that good?
Have you sent out some units for testing?

GS600 isn't as good as TX, HX, or AX.

It's only 80 Plus standard, it's rated at 40C instead of 50C, and the requirements are to meet all ATX specs instead of "exceed ATX spec by x%" like TX, HX, and AX have.

It's still a very good, reliable product, and from many other manufacturers would be their flagship.

It's designed for retail mostly, where people don't read PSU reviews or know about Computex - they just want to walk into a store, read the box, compare it to what else is there, and walk home with a well-priced unit.


I see. I guess most companies there showed their best new stuff. Are you at liberty already to say when the GS-series will be available in the market?

Already available in some markets.

[anonemus]

Thanks!

Btw,

AX = Awesome!

[Stefan Payne]

It's still a very good, reliable product
Than why silently announce it?!

The HX450 failed for exaple 'cause no one knew it.

[Phaedrus2129]

I thought the HX450 was just a European thing, with a very, very limited US release. I heard it did fairly well in Europe.




I class the GX600 as a cheaper (both price and quality) VX550 with an LED fan. In fact, it probably has a lot in common with the Best Buy Rocketfish 700W; CWT PSH 550W with mixed caps and LED fan. Only thing is the RF-700 has modular cables and costs half again as much as it's worth.

[Stefan Payne]

I thought the HX450 was just a European thing, with a very, very limited US release. I heard it did fairly well in Europe.
No it didn't, 'cause it wasn't really advertised.
Even I didn't know it existed, until it was almost droped.

[Zap]

The HX450 failed for exaple 'cause no one knew it.

That, plus few want to buy an expensive low wattage PSU.

[Redbeard]

That, plus few want to buy an expensive low wattage PSU.

This is correct.

[Smirnoff]

Yeah, I bought the ones I have (Seasonics) only because they were almost 50% off. Otherwise I might not have bought them at all.

[ratbuddy]

That, plus few want to buy an expensive low wattage PSU.

Put me in that group. If someone offered a 90% efficient (or higher!) PSU rated for 150-200 watts, I'd happily pay $75 or so.

[Redbeard]

Put me in that group. If someone offered a 90% efficient (or higher!) PSU rated for 150-200 watts, I'd happily pay $75 or so.

Not many people feel that way, though.

Think about this: you walk into a store (or check an online store) and are looking for an 80 Plus Gold certified PSU, your budget is $75.

On the shelf are your hypothetical 200W PSU and a 500W PSU, both 80 Plus Gold certified, both from a similar manufacturer. The 200W costs $69 and the 500W costs $75.

The vast, vast majority of people will buy the 500W.

Once you've upgraded the components of the PSU to achieve that level of quality, it's just a marginal cost adder to bring the wattage from ~350W to 500W-600W.

[Stefan Payne]

Not many people feel that way, though.
Yes, 'cause they don't know what they really need!
If they knew, they'd buy a good 400-550W PSU and not some 750W thing, they're able to load up to 50%, at best.
(OK, I'm guilty as charged, 'cause I don't use such PSUs either...)


Think about this: you walk into a store (or check an online store) and are looking for an 80 Plus Gold certified PSU, your budget is $75.

On the shelf are your hypothetical 200W PSU and a 500W PSU, both 80 Plus Gold certified, both from a similar manufacturer. The 200W costs $69 and the 500W costs $75.

The vast, vast majority of people will buy the 500W.
Why didn't you use a 400W?
'cause that's what people really nead, but don't...
And most 400W PSUs don't have 2 PCIe connectors (but would be able to support a single HD58x0 or 2 HD5770)...
Once you've upgraded the components of the PSU to achieve that level of quality, it's just a marginal cost adder to bring the wattage from ~350W to 500W-600W.
isn't that a chicken <-> egg problem?

As far as I know, things that are barely needed are more expansive than common things.

For example, if you build a really short PSU PCB (like HEC does), you still put it in a 140mm casing 'cause a shorter one will be more expansive.
So no one builds an ATX PSU with a 100 or 120mm deep case...

[Redbeard]

Yes, 'cause they don't know what they really need!
If they knew, they'd buy a good 400-550W PSU and not some 750W thing, they're able to load up to 50%, at best.
(OK, I'm guilty as charged, 'cause I don't use such PSUs either...)


Why didn't you use a 400W?
'cause that's what people really nead, but don't...
And most 400W PSUs don't have 2 PCIe connectors (but would be able to support a single HD58x0 or 2 HD5770)...

isn't that a chicken <-> egg problem?

As far as I know, things that are barely needed are more expansive than common things.

For example, if you build a really short PSU PCB (like HEC does), you still put it in a 140mm casing 'cause a shorter one will be more expansive.
So no one builds an ATX PSU with a 100 or 120mm deep case...


There are a lot of truths in what you say - but there's a lot of cool products that don't get made because the market is small (or nearly non-existent).

For example, I'd like it if somebody made a car stereo that worked as well as my iPhone. Capacitive touch-screen, seamless integration with maps and iPod/iTunes, localized restaurant reviews with a link to the internet with 3G and Wi-Fi when available, etc. I'd also like it to have at least 6V pre-amp outs and the ability to natively play XviD, DivX, MKV, H.264 stuff, etc. While we're at it, it should have a customizable user interface and OS, maybe built on Android or something.

But the best I can find aftermarket is a Pioneer head unit that does only about half that. (X910BT)

I'm guessing the market just isn't there for such a high-end car stereo.

But I'd buy one.


Same problem with high price, low wattage units.

[deimos3428]

Looking at it again, I'd have to agree with Redbeard that a AX450 just isn't feasible.

A theoretical AX450 would cost nearly as much as the AX750 to make. There's not a lot of difference in the components. So to make the same profit, you'd need more sales. Ok, so far that's possible. The ~450W market is larger. But the AX450 would need to retail for about $120, and that's a huge problem.

At that price point, Corsair's other lines become total cannibals -- they'd eat AX450 sales alive! Customers are nearly always going to take the hugely successful TX750 or HX650 instead.

[ratbuddy]

Not many people feel that way, though.

Think about this: you walk into a store (or check an online store) and are looking for an 80 Plus Gold certified PSU, your budget is $75.

On the shelf are your hypothetical 200W PSU and a 500W PSU, both 80 Plus Gold certified, both from a similar manufacturer. The 200W costs $69 and the 500W costs $75.

The vast, vast majority of people will buy the 500W.

Once you've upgraded the components of the PSU to achieve that level of quality, it's just a marginal cost adder to bring the wattage from ~350W to 500W-600W.

Generally speaking, you are probably correct. There is certainly a niche market though for a very low power PSU for HTPC (and probably other) applications. My HTPC draws between 60 and 75 watts at the wall, depending what I'm doing with it. The smallest Corsair PSU I could find was the CX400W, so I'm running well outside the load/efficiency sweet spot.

I would gladly have paid the same money for a PSU with half the capacity, simply because it would be saving me money on the power bill, assuming an identical efficiency curve.

Put out an 80+ Gold PSU rated for 200 watts selling at $50-$75 and I bet you'll be shocked how fast they fly off the shelves.

[Proximon]

... Customers are nearly always going to take the hugely successful TX750 or HX650 instead.

And the customers are right.

The average builder does not want to worry whether their PSU is functioning properly or get out a calculator to see if they can use the next video card.

No one can predict with any certainty what power needs their computer will have in 4 years. Is paying a few extra bucks so offensive?

Some people automatically fall to the floor and begin twitching and frothing at the suggestion that another person would buy 10 or 20 amps more than they need.

[Redbeard]

Generally speaking, you are probably correct. There is certainly a niche market though for a very low power PSU for HTPC (and probably other) applications. My HTPC draws between 60 and 75 watts at the wall, depending what I'm doing with it. The smallest Corsair PSU I could find was the CX400W, so I'm running well outside the load/efficiency sweet spot.

I would gladly have paid the same money for a PSU with half the capacity, simply because it would be saving me money on the power bill, assuming an identical efficiency curve.

Put out an 80+ Gold PSU rated for 200 watts selling at $50-$75 and I bet you'll be shocked how fast they fly off the shelves.


Okay, let's take your example, let's say we make an AX300 based on the same efficiency curve as our AX1200. Also, let's say that the AX300 costs you $75.

This means that at 60W, 150W, and 300W, it's 87, 90, and 87 percent efficient, respectively.

Let's say your HTPC draws 60W from the PSU. At 87% efficiency, that's about 69W from the wall. So you're wasting 9W of heat there. Very small amount, very efficient.

Now let's take the CX400, which is 80% efficient at 80W, 200W, and 400W. The CX400 costs about $50. Since you're only drawing 60W (15% load), let's estimate that you're at 75% efficiency. Which means you're drawing 80W from the wall. You're wasting 20W of heat there. That's more than twice as much!

But what does that actually cost?

20W is .02kWh, and let's say you ran it 24 hours a day for an entire year. That's 8760 hours. 8760 x .02 = ~175kWh of energy per year.

Price your local electricity, say, .08 cents per kWh or so in the US. You get $14.02 in savings per year, if left on 24/7/365 and running constantly at that input rating.

Since the CX400 is $50 and the AX300 is $75, you have to run it for two full years before you cover the difference in price.

Really, more customers are concerned about having enough power for future upgrades they may or may not do than they are about saving ~$1 a month.


Efficiency is useful as a differentiator, but at low wattages it's not so much for cost savings as it is for heat generation and lower noise levels.

Even at high wattages, people don't run tri-SLI rigs with 4.2GHz 6-core CPUs at 100% load for 24/7/365, so the cost savings at even 1000W isn't like $20 a month, it's closer to $1-$2 a month at best.

[mdk777]

good analysis, (I wouldn't expect less) except that I think the national average is closer to .11 per KWH in the US.

Edit. down to .1086 in 2010
http://www.eia.doe.gov/electricity/epm/table5_6_b.html

I also find that a handy number because it is pretty close to a dollar per watt per year.

Save 20 watts, save $20 per year. Of course that's if you are running 24/7/365.:)

Only crazy people like Folding@home do that. :D

[ratbuddy]

I do leave the HTPC on all the time. It doubles as a network storage server. We're paying something like $.11/kwh here, but with all the fees and crap, it's actually close to $.20/kwh. See http://www.cl-p.com/rates/generationrates/averagebill.aspx for an example, that is my power company. Look at Europe and it gets pretty crazy too. Some places people pay upwards of €.40/kwh.

Other issues to think about include air conditioning costs; those extra wasted watts are making the A/C work that much harder*. There's also a general dislike for waste, why use more than I need to? Finally, there's the warranty term. I'm darn well going to run my Corsair PSUs until the warranty runs out, and probably beyond. When I make efficiency calculations I average them out over the life of the PSU.

Using your numbers of 87% for a hypothetical AX300 and 75% for my current CX400, 24/7 use at $.20/kwh, resulting in 69 vs 80 watts of heat, I'd be saving a kwh every 3.788 days, or about 96 kwh/year. $19.20, give or take a few cents. Assuming the same 7 year warranty as the big AX units, that's enough lifetime savings to more than cover the cost, and indeed makes the AX300 option a break-even deal even at $190. I'd happily pay $75 for such a unit, and wonder why you weren't charging more.

Plop me down in Copenhagen and we're looking at a difference of roughly €38.40 per year for a system drawing only 60 watts from the PSU left on all the time.

My main rig as I type this (E8600, GTX 280, several drives) is drawing about 105 watts from a TX750W, the kill-a-watt says 132 and I'm assuming 80% efficiency. Under gaming load the system draws 330 watts AC, about 274 DC from the PSU assuming 84% efficiency. If there was an 80+ Gold AX450 as mentioned above, it would be running at 60% capacity, meaning I'd be looking at 91.5% efficiency or so, according to the JG review of the AX1200, resulting in AC draw of 299.5w or so loaded - savings of 30.5w. Idle, just under 1/4 load, the numbers are 90% efficiency and 116.7 watts at the wall, savings of 15.3 watts. I won't bother repeating all the dollar savings calculations, but it's a good bit more than the HTPC's.

Over the warranty periods of the PSUs, the numbers really do add up. I'd happily sell my TX750 and throw in an AX450 if such a beast existed. Likewise with the CX400 in the HTPC, I'd replace it with a high efficiency unit in a hot minute.

I'm getting a vague feeling of uneasiness over the threadjack, so I'll just shut up now.

*Yes, I know it'll offset the heat bill in the winter, but heat and hot water are included here, while A/C isn't :P

[Phaedrus2129]

Please, do go on, you're making a much better case for top-quality low-wattage units here than I made in my PSU rep challenge thread. :p






Also, testing a button...

The Best Buy Rocketfish RF-700 is a CWT PSH than Channel Well rated at 550W at 50C. I assume that a unit that does 600W at 40C does 550W at 50C. Assuming that differences in capacitors choice and such are negligible... It would be pretty fair to say that the RF-700 and GS600 are the same thing, except the Corsair has a better warranty and the Rocketfish is modular. Going purely on physical product, then RF-700>GS600.

Which means Best Buy has at least one power supply better than a Corsair.

[/rib]
;)

[mdk777]

Rocketfish, a name everyone....., well many people,or a few.. well perhaps someone....knows and trusts,.. well sort of has confidence in.., well perhaps is willing to flip a coin..., er well.... that name alone doesn't prove that it is junk.

[mdk777]

ratbuddy,

The only problem is that
1. highly informed consumers are few and far between.
2. Even very rational and well informed consumers actually seldom are willing to pay upfront, even when they know that the savings are tremendous.

You only have to look at the numbers of people who pay cash for their cars vs. the numbers who finance at a significant cost.

I agree there is a market. It is just very small.:)

[Zap]

I'd like it if somebody made a car stereo that worked as well as my iPhone...

I'd be satisfied if more cars used standardized head units. Good luck replacing the HU on my Mazda, where it is integrated with the climate control and takes up most of the center dash.

Put out an 80+ Gold PSU rated for 200 watts selling at $50-$75 and I bet you'll be shocked how fast they fly off the shelves.

PicoPSU is almost there at 160W.

Some people automatically fall to the floor and begin twitching and frothing at the suggestion that another person would buy 10 or 20 amps more than they need.

They can roll around on the ground in harmony with the twitchy and frothy enthusiasts who just fell on the ground a moment earlier when someone suggested NOT buying five times more PSU than they need.

[Elledan]

Rocketfish, a name everyone....., well many people,or a few.. well perhaps someone....knows and trusts,.. well sort of has confidence in.., well perhaps is willing to flip a coin..., er well.... that name alone doesn't prove that it is junk.

Imagine tying a rocket to a fish, then lighting 'er up. The resulting mess is about what you get when you buy a Rocketfish PSU.

:p