Kingwin Mach 1 1000-Watt VS enermax revolution+85 1050w

[addsim]

I have been investigating many different PSU for a new i7 build. I have narrowed down to the enermax revolution+85 1050w an the Kingwin Mach 1 1000w.

I would like to see a comprehensive review on this kingwin done by Jonnyguru but it looks like just the older less efficient/less wattage kingwins are the only available reviews on this site. I have however found a couple other reviews on this PSU on other sites. I trust Jonnyguru more because of the equipment used to test this kind of stuff.

Reviews I have been through on the Kingwin

:beer:

www.virtual-hideout.net - Kingwin 1k (http://www.virtual-hideout.net/reviews/Kingwin_ABT-1000MA1S_Power_Supply/index.shtml)In the "Installation & Testing:" section the virtual-hideout reviewer said - "And one thing worth noting is that the PSU is about 98% efficient right up to about 850 watts and maintains an 85% efficiency there after."
Jonnyguru, is there any truth to this tested statement?

www.ocia.net - Kingwin 1kw (http://www.ocia.net/reviews/kingwin1kw/page4.shtml)

www.overclockercafe.com - Kingwin 1k (http://www.overclockercafe.com/Reviews/other_misc/Kingwin_1000w_Mach1/)

www.anandtech.com - Kingwin 1k (http://www.anandtech.com/casecoolingpsus/showdoc.aspx?i=3173&p=5)

www.cpu3d.com - Kingwin 1k (http://www.cpu3d.com/review/5117-1/kingwin-abt-1000ma1s-mach-1-1000-watt-psu/introduction.html)

www.cluboverclocker.com - Kingwin 1k (http://www.cluboverclocker.com/reviews/power/kingwin/Mach1_1000/index.asp)

www.overclockershq.com - Kingwin 1k (http://www.overclockershq.com/hardware-reviews/kingwin-abt-1000ma1s-1000w-power-supply-review.html)

:beer:

My only problem with the enermax is price and compatibility with the evga classified motherboard that I am looking at. I love the silver 80 plus efficiency of this enermax PSU, I trust the name and Jonnyguru reviewed it, but it's expensive and a hit or miss compatibility with the classified mobo.

Google - Enermax revolution classified compatibility - for in depth forums on compatibility issues.

I know there is a newer Kingwin 1220-Watt but this is more than I need and less efficient than the Kingwin 1000 watt. Also I might need a more expensive UPS to protect it. I live in central Florida "lightning capital of the civilized world" so a good UPS like this CyberPower (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16842102048) would be a PSU life saver.

I need some non-SuperFlower bashing advise. We all know they had there problems in the past but this is not the same. Read the reviews before you bash. There might be some DOA's on newegg but this is easily remedied and there are people that bash just because they had one bad one and are nubs (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=nub) (2nd and 3rd definition. 7th is very funny!).

I have done a PSU calculation on how much I will need and I am floting around;
Recommended Wattage: 851 Watts
Recommended Amperage:[+3.3V - 22.8A] [+5V - 23.7A] [+12V - 54.8 A]
Recommended UPS rating: 1440 VA
:beer:

Any advise, comments, observations or suggestion or a super amazing Jonnyguru Review on the Kingwin Mach 1 1000w PSU would be appreciated.

-Thanks

[addsim]

:)

[Sphere]

It may happen if you persuade Kingwin to send Oklahoma Wolf a unit.

Edit: Why must you spam with 3 of the same threads? It's not going to get you opinions any faster.

[addsim]

Oklahoma Wolf,
Ive seen you on the evga forum and have seen you got an Enermax with a classified. How is that working out?

Which revisions do you have of the mobo and PSU?

Thank for fixing that post my Mac book pro sucks sometimes:wall:

[HOOfan_1]

Pretty sure an older Superflower design can't compete on an even keel with the Revolution 85+

[addsim]

Indeed, I agree but look at that virtual-hideout review got me confused.

[Spectre]

Here is the 1220w http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTUzNiwsLGhlbnRodXNpYXN0 reviewed by some nub.

And no no superflower is 98% efficient.

[addsim]

Im in no hurry. The classified mobo might be old hat when the new usb 3.0 starts headlining in fall 2009. There is plenty of room for an express usb 3.0 card. Hopefully the classified bandwidth will prevail when that time comes.

Any thoughts?

[Oklahoma Wolf]

Oklahoma Wolf,
Ive seen you on the evga forum and have seen you got an Enermax with a classified. How is that working out?

Which revisions do you have of the mobo and PSU?

Thank for fixing that post my Mac book pro sucks sometimes:wall:

I don't have an account at the EVGA forum, I don't have an EVGA mainboard, and my latest Enermax review sample sold.

[MrWicked1968]

wtf is a "classified" motherboard?

[addsim]

I just called Enermax and asked about those pesky incompatibility issues with the Evga classified and the support guy said that the newer Limited edition was the one to stay away from. Evga's newer mobo revision without nf200 chip works. They just released a revised version of that one last month that should be problem free. The ones that were bad nf200 and non-nf200 were around the month of March.

With this maybe not so new development I have decided to go with my gut and get the Enermax Revolution. I do trust Enermax more and am willing to pay for quality but would still like to see a non-nub review for the older Kingwin Mach 1 1000w because it is at a lower price point and looks so Los Vages sexy for a PSU.

As far as the 1220w Mach 1 is concerned; it doesn't fit my need and is less efficient in some respects according to other reviews. [H] enthusiast gave it a silver only because it had a one year warranty. He did do ripple testing though.

A company that will warranty a product for only year says a lot about there faith in that product. This can be remedied by getting a 2 year replacement warranty though. Kingwin is a funny bugger because there are so many people that like there PSU's even though it a SuperFlower. Are they enthusiast or just nubs.

Example:
Look at this guys Hot rig www.ocforums.com - GeneralMac (http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=600550)

He does have a bay psu also.

[addsim]

:beer:Sorry Oklahoma Wolf,
I got you confused with another Wolf avatar. Its all blending together.:beer:

[Hondacity]

wtf is a "classified" motherboard?

its the evga top of the line x58 motherboard

addsim...

what cpu gpu will you be running?

[addsim]

I might use the I7-920. I get an awesome deal on it through my Job. The newer Core i7 950 and 975 Extreme are a possibility too.

[Hondacity]

what gpu?

[addsim]

For the GPU - Zotac GTX 285 AMP! Edition or the BFG Tech GTX 285 OCX. What ever is cheaper at the time i get it.

The BFG Tech GTX 285 OCX oc's further but is too expensive right now.

Both have a lifetime warranty.

[addsim]

Well back to the Kingwin vs Enermax. I still have some unanswered questions even though I will more than likely get the Enermax.

Toms hardware Power: Supply Rating Myths (http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/pc-power-supplies,1664-5.html)

"By calculating the ratio between energy consumption and energy production, we produce a number somewhere between zero and one. For example, net energy production of 450 W divided by gross consumption of 550 W at maximum load produces a value of 0.818. This number represents the efficiency of the power supply. Commonly this efficiency index is represented as a percentage value, which may be calculated by multiplying the previous ratio by 100, to produce in our example a value of 76.4%."

Well lets do this:
My Recommended Wattage: 851 Watts

Kingwin Mach 1 1000-W: 1000W continuous output
851÷1000 = 0.851 ×100 = 85.1

Enermax Revolution85+ 1050w
851÷1050 = 0.810 ×100 = 81.0

What am i missing here? Please be kind I am learning alot about this stuff but I am still a young Padawan. I need more PSU Jedi training.

How is Kingwin getting this? What did they do different?:
This was a PSU torture test for the Kingwin.
www.virtual-hideout.net (http://www.virtual-hideout.net/reviews/Kingwin_ABT-1000MA1S_Power_Supply/index3.shtml)
"one thing worth noting is that the PSU is about 98% efficient right up to about 850 watts and maintains an 85% efficiency there after."

How is Enermax getting this? What did they do different?:
This is from www.jonnyguru.com
Hot Test
"838W/970W at 86.4%"

Again please be kind. If this Kingwin test is accurate the Kingwin would be potentially a better deal since it retails for less money. But with out a good warranty you would have to get an extended replacement warranty through CompUSA, TigerDirect or the recent addition to the Systemax buyouts; CircuitCity. This would put the price right up there with the Enermax.

The price could depreciate though along with the Enermax.

Some interesting thoughts for discussion right?

[theAnimal]

Well back to the Kingwin vs Enermax. I still have some unanswered questions even though I will more than likely get the Enermax.

Toms hardware Power: Supply Rating Myths

"By calculating the ratio between energy consumption and energy production, we produce a number somewhere between zero and one. For example, net energy production of 450 W divided by gross consumption of 550 W at maximum load produces a value of 0.818. This number represents the efficiency of the power supply. Commonly this efficiency index is represented as a percentage value, which may be calculated by multiplying the previous ratio by 100, to produce in our example a value of 76.4%."

Well lets do this:
My Recommended Wattage: 851 Watts

Kingwin Mach 1 1000-W: 1000W continuous output
851÷1000 = 0.851 ×100 = 85.1

Enermax Revolution85+ 1050w
851÷1050 = 0.810 ×100 = 81.0

What am i missing here? Please be kind I am learning alot about this stuff but I am still a young Padawan. I need more PSU Jedi training.
You need to know the actual AC & DC power consumption in order to determine efficiency.

How is Kingwin getting this? What did they do different?:
This was a PSU torture test for the Kingwin.
www.virtual-hideout.net
"one thing worth noting is that the PSU is about 98% efficient right up to about 850 watts and maintains an 85% efficiency there after."
I'm certain that's an error considering that the most efficient Kingwin listed on the 80Plus site is only ~89%.

[Hondacity]

why kingwin? its made by superflower... if you're going for i920 and one gpu...

go with the good stuff

hx850
sg850
ppc 910
rev85+ 1050


**i have the i940 and i920(i use only one at a time) and 3x 285s....you don't need 1kw if you're going 2x sli... 850w is plenty...

oh by the way..the coolermaster emba850 worked great with the i940 and 2x 285s

[Travis]

"By calculating the ratio between energy consumption and energy production, we produce a number somewhere between zero and one. For example, net energy production of 450 W divided by gross consumption of 550 W at maximum load produces a value of 0.818. This number represents the efficiency of the power supply. Commonly this efficiency index is represented as a percentage value, which may be calculated by multiplying the previous ratio by 100, to produce in our example a value of 76.4%."

Well lets do this:
My Recommended Wattage: 851 Watts

Kingwin Mach 1 1000-W: 1000W continuous output
851÷1000 = 0.851 ×100 = 85.1

Enermax Revolution85+ 1050w
851÷1050 = 0.810 ×100 = 81.0


What am i missing here? Please be kind I am learning alot about this stuff but I am still a young Padawan. I need more PSU Jedi training.


--No, the gross consumption isn't the rated wattage (1000W/1050W) here. It should be measured with some equipment on the AC side. It's done in the experiment, not what you can see on the label sticker.


How is Kingwin getting this? What did they do different?:
This was a PSU torture test for the Kingwin.
www.virtual-hideout.net (http://www.virtual-hideout.net/reviews/Kingwin_ABT-1000MA1S_Power_Supply/index3.shtml)
"one thing worth noting is that the PSU is about 98% efficient right up to about 850 watts and maintains an 85% efficiency there after."


Because they used the wrong method. They didn't get the output power, so they can't calculate efficiency numbers. 98% is shit. They didn't even tell you how they got the 98% number.

[addsim]

--No, the gross consumption isn't the rated wattage (1000W/1050W) here. It should be measured with some equipment on the AC side. It's done in the experiment, not what you can see on the label sticker.

Because they used the wrong method. They didn't get the output power, so they can't calculate efficiency numbers. 98% is shit. They didn't even tell you how they got the 98% number.

That makes since and what I kind of figured:beer:

[addsim]

why kingwin? its made by superflower... if you're going for i920 and one gpu...

go with the good stuff

hx850
sg850
ppc 910
rev85+ 1050


**i have the i940 and i920(i use only one at a time) and 3x 285s....you don't need 1kw if you're going 2x sli... 850w is plenty...

oh by the way..the coolermaster emba850 worked great with the i940 and 2x 285s

Indeed! I liked that Silencer 910 but the Enermax Revolution85+ 950w is Sick!:
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/psus/2009/05/13/enermax-revolution-85-950w-psu-review/6

As far as my choice to get a 1k PSU is concerned; I like the extra headroom for future upgrades and longevity.

Sure 850 watts is enough for that but what else do you have in your system?

I don't want to push a full load for a long time on any PSU because it could potentially ware down the components faster shortening the life of the PSU. This is true especially for someone like me that lives in a place geographically that surges frequently do to lightning.

When I shell out 15 hundred on a new system it better last me. My insurance does cover power surge but but i would rather avoid that hassle.
Computer Part price depreciation rocks and sometimes sucks.

This is why a 1k would be not just more than adequate but ideal for me.

One thing to note is I game only at the highest graphical settings and stream HD movies over the internet. If I spend the money I don't want to do it gain for the next 5 to 6 years. I know Im going to regret saying this but this comes from being a Mac user since Apple III.:rolleyes:

A future build might look like a i7 950 will oc higher, Dual SLI GTX 285 OCX, Tri Channel 1600Mhz RAM might oc higher, 6 120mm LED 2000RPM Fans, 3 230mm LED Fans, NZXT SENTRY LX Fan Controller, Western Digital - VelociRaptor HD, Cold Cathodes, Front Bay Card Reader, FireWire Devices 2, USB Devices 2, Maybe a Sound Blaster, If I don't wait for USB 3.0 mobo's; a USB 3.0 Express card if the mobo bandwidth is there. Mobo is an obvious x58 of some-sort.

This is not much but I have checked out most of this equipment and some other possible upgrades that I didn't mention and calculated the wattage. Thats ware I got my wattage perviously mentioned.

I am still curious.. What you have under the hood and what your total wattage is.

I really appreciate your interest in my system and the same goes for everyone who has posted here.

Thank you for your ideas, comments and advice.

[Hondacity]

to protect your system,, i suggeest getting high quality surge protectors...

i've used my emba850 with my dual 285s, with no problem at all, it was drawing around 700w from the psu...thats using cpu at max utilization and gpu loaded with folding@home

with gaming you won't be drawing alot of power...

streaming hd over the internet is just cpu work...thats low level 2d...

[HOOfan_1]

The 850W you are talking about is a suggested PSU rating, not how much power your system will use. The System you outlined above will not use 850W. PSU suggestions are usually given to prevent running your PSU at the ragged edge. PSU suggestions are hopefully given which will allow you to run your PSU at less than ~65% of its rated output.

I didn't say the Superflower made Kingwins would be junk, if you look at Paul's review of the 1220W unit, you will see they aren't junk. But I was saying, there is pretty much no way those units could compete on an even playing feild with the Enermax Revolution.

Also high efficiency does not mean a unit is of high quality. As Travis stated, the Virtual Hideout review is a joke, so you might as well just forget it even exists.

[addsim]

The 850W you are talking about is a suggested PSU rating, not how much power your system will use. The System you outlined above will not use 850W. PSU suggestions are usually given to prevent running your PSU at the ragged edge. PSU suggestions are hopefully given which will allow you to run your PSU at less than ~65% of its rated output.

I don't know who you are talking to here?

Only if you were talking to me;
If you are questioning why I need 1000 Watts look at I talked about before I rattled off what my possible future system would look like.

Example:
I just rechecked my calculated wattage again an it is not taking into account all the other stuff like extra PCI Express cards, More Hard Drives, and Radiators, all that I did not mention.I am compensating for that stuff and the moments I go crazy on the oc.

I didn't say the Superflower made Kingwins would be junk, if you look at Paul's review of the 1220W unit, you will see they aren't junk. But I was saying, there is pretty much no way those units could compete on an even playing feild with the Enermax Revolution.

I was more less comparing the 1000w Kingwin to the 1050w Enermax in terms of overall value based on reviews which can be subjective based on what your needs are and the knowledge of the reviewer. Anything over 1050 I am not even considering based on my needs.

It is especially diffacult when there is only one trustworthy review (jonnyguru Enermax 1050w) to compare to all the other reviews out there (Kingwin 1000w). Though there are a lot of people that I have seen and know that have bought this Kingwin and rave about its smooth sailing rock solid performance and efficiency.

I would just like to see a good trustworthy test review done. And the only place for that in my opinion is here. That should be flattering right?

I just love you all...:lol::crazy:

Also high efficiency does not mean a unit is of high quality. As Travis stated, the Virtual Hideout review is a joke, so you might as well just forget it even exists.

The Virtual Hideout has been ruled out already. There Virtual knowledge must still be in hiding.:beer:

I will never argue that Kingwin is a better built quality unit than a PC Power & Cooling, Corsair or "The performance and efficiency PSU God" Enermax. You know the Title might be little bit misleading but it attracts controversy among enthusiast dorks like me who are iffy on Superflower and Love PC Power & Cooling, Corsair and Enermax.

Cooling and Modifying is my specialty. I have always used PC Power & Cooling, Corsair and Enermax for my older Gigabyte LN2 rigg "Big Betsy".
Betsy died though during a manic mad scientist oc moment during a lighting storm. It sounds cliche i know, and a little mellow dramatic but is sadly...sadly true. That GA-EP45T Extreme took a lot of abuse but died gracefully in a surge of glory. So power is not my strong point.

Just for fun:
Have any of you every had this happen? Be honest... Its not like we were all born knowing how to do this stuff like the jonnyguru.

[HOOfan_1]

Paul Johnson at HardOCP also reviewed the Revolution 85+ 1050W...and he linked you to his Kingwin 1220W review...the 1220W will more than likely be similar to the 1000W. Paul's reviews are just as thorough and trustworthy as Oklahoma Wolf's here at jonnyguru.com.

How are these people that you know testing the voltage and efficiency of the Kingwins they bought? Testing the voltage with a multimeter is pretty easy, but testing efficiency...when hooked up to computer components is no small trick.

If you are looking for a good unit that is cheaper than the Enermax Revolution, there are other units out there besides the Kingwin. Corsair HX1000, Ikonik Vulcan 1000W....if you don't need modular, Coolermaster Real Power Pro 1000W

[addsim]

Paul Johnson at HardOCP also reviewed the Revolution 85+ 1050W...and he linked you to his Kingwin 1220W review...the 1220W will more than likely be similar to the 1000W. Paul's reviews are just as thorough and trustworthy as Oklahoma Wolf's here at jonnyguru.com.

I looked at that one and as I said before it got a silver only for the one year warranty. I still wondered how the 1000 would do with less overhead wattage and ripples. Its hard to tell sometimes for me but I do trust the experts.

Read "The Bottom Line (http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTUzNiw5LCwxNzA=)" about this review.

I like the reviews on [H]Enthusiast. Very thorough, like jonnyGURU.
Though Spectre earlier on in this forum said this was reviewed by some nub.

How are these people that you know testing the voltage and efficiency of the Kingwins they bought? Testing the voltage with a multimeter is pretty easy, but testing efficiency...when hooked up to computer components is no small trick.

I don't know how they are testing I am just quoting the experience they had told me when I asked. This, as you know is not sufficient evidence to build a rock solid case for the Kingwin. Thats why I am here. Paul Johnson at HardOCP did help to get me here though.

If you are looking for a good unit that is cheaper than the Enermax Revolution, there are other units out there besides the Kingwin. Corsair HX1000, Ikonik Vulcan 1000W....if you don't need modular, Coolermaster Real Power Pro 1000W

I love the Corsair HX1000! Its just too long 200mm. Ikonik Vulcan 1000W is $269.99 on newegg (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817301002). Its efficiency is not so hot compaired to ENERMAX REVOLUTION85+ 1050 $273.24 on provantage (http://www.provantage.com/enermax-erv1050ewt~7EMAX01E.htm). It looked cool though.

I like the ENERMAX REVOLUTION85+ 950w too.
Provantage (http://www.provantage.com/enermax-erv950ewt~7EMAX01F.htm)$258.62 special order.

[HOOfan_1]

People are way too hung up on efficiency....

BTW Spectre IS Paul Johnson, he was just being sarcastically self-deprecating.

[addsim]

:lol:Thats funny!:lol:

At least he knows from my previous post, Im a fan of his reviews. That might improve his self esteem.:lol:

"A good bit of levity is important."

Great job on all the reviews Paul.

I would have joined that sites forums long ago but I have a yahoo mail account and they "do not allow Yahoo, Hotmail, or GMail addresses for registration due to terrible abuses in the past." This is Understandable and i dont blame them.:(

[Spectre]

I looked at that one and as I said before it got a silver only for the one year warranty. I still wondered how the 1000 would do with less overhead wattage and ripples. Its hard to tell sometimes for me but I do trust the experts.

Since the current Mach1 1000w+ units are all the same platform it would perform the same or slightly better in all likely hood given it is not as close to the top of the platforms capacity.

And "ripples" is not correct. Ripple is the leftover AC waveform in DC output.

[addsim]

Since the current Mach1 1000w+ units are all the same platform it would perform the same or slightly better in all likely hood given it is not as close to the top of the platforms capacity.

I wish I could test it.

And "ripples" is not correct. Ripple is the leftover AC waveform in DC output.

Higher Wattage PSU more Ripple? I know a little about Ripple. We call it "Dirty Power" in the Home Theater world. Power Conditioners are supposed to clean this stuff up and keep it from waring down your components. Quality ones have L-C filters that reduces the Ripple and other interference. I want a True RMS Digital meter. My wife would kill me if I bought one though. Me talking in this form makes her a-little mad. Doesn't want me to turn into dork.:rant:

% Ripple = AC rms volts x 100
DC volts

The "s" was a typo.

Anyway thank you Jedi master Spectre.

[Travis]

Higher Wattage PSU more Ripple?

No. But high-wattage PSUs tend to suppress it better under light load.

[Spectre]

Higher Wattage PSU more Ripple?

Yes and no. The same platform platform at full load at 1200W will on average have more ripple/noise on the DC output than a 1000W model at full load assuming the same power components such as used in the SuperFlower's being discussed.

I know a little about Ripple.

Maybe.

We call it "Dirty Power" in the Home Theater world. Power Conditioners are supposed to clean this stuff up and keep it from waring down your components. Quality ones have L-C filters that reduces the Ripple and other interference.

Power conditioners exist on the AC side not the DC..............

[Travis]

Power conditioners exist on the AC side not the DC..............

So that should be called the harmonics or distortion?

[addsim]

So that should be called the harmonics or distortion?

Indeed. When the AC is transduced into "signal" "audio when exists as electricity" you can some times hear the ripple or voltage irregularities as distortion or noise. Only an audiophile or audio enthusiast could really hear it. This is not very audible to an average mp3 listening consumer.

In a PSU, my guess is that noise is unwanted AC signal riding on the DC level and is referred to as ripple. Ripple can alter the DC voltages and causes the transistor circuits to not work properly or malfunction like noise in a receiver or a TV.

The result is wear on the logic that could potentially cause data corruption or loss. In the case of signal, degradation in the quality of audio or video.

When I say I know a little I mean I wouldn't be able to build or test one or any of these things; power conditioner or PSU. Buuut the basic principles are what interest me. I care about quality and Im not willing to pay for it unless it truly is. Knowing the facts is part of the fun in buying for me.

And I want to thank everyone here for contributing to that.:beer:

[addsim]

Yes and no. The same platform platform at full load at 1200W will on average have more ripple/noise on the DC output than a 1000W model at full load assuming the same power components such as used in the SuperFlower's being discussed.

That is what I was thinking but would it make a difference in the amount or how frequent the ripple/noise is if Im not loading full wattage in this PSU; Kingwin 1000w?

Is it fundamentally better management in the case of the Enermax?

[Spectre]

So that should be called the harmonics or distortion?

Yep, that is what power conditioners do remove the odd order harmonics and some AC line noise.