PC Power&Cooling Silencer 750

[CAD4466HK]

Since alot of people like this PSU for some reason or other:confused: ,
here you go:)

My favorite part by Liquid3D:
"PCP designs and build all their PSU's and the Turbo-Cool series is almost entirely fabricated in-house."

And this too:
"PCP now offers a test report with any PSU they sell for a $15 fee. Using a 75K$ Chroma tester they test all rails essentially finding the maximum current prior to shutdown. For this reason it's important to look for maximum amperes and the length of time the test was run."

What ever happend to mentioning Seasonic as the OEM:confused:
Why would you pay $15 for a bunch of frell:confused:

http://www.madshrimps.be/?action=getarticle&number=1&artpage=2119&articID=511

[GalvanizedYankee]

I like Madshrimps.be, I like jmke but I have tired of the pcp&c spin :p

Someone with sharper eyes will find the Seasonic 'S' on the PCB, Seasonic does build it's own PCBs. The bulk cap dead center is a tell-tale for a Seasonic unit. So it's single 12V rail and of cross flow design but it's still OEMed by Seasonic.
The way I read it explained once...An OEM will give an exclusive as long as the buy is so many thousands of units a month. Fall below that buy and the exclusive is off.
This was kicked around pretty hard in two threads over at AnandTech. If this post gets crazy, I'll link those threads.
Gotta find them first :cool:

No doubt this is a very good unit, that does not need spinning.

CAD, do note that the heat sinks are not anodized. The surface left after anodizing is as of glass, it insulates electrically and thermally. ;) Many builders of SMPSs refuse this treatment for this very reason. Both Zippy and Enhance have told me they will never anodize sinks.
Why are sinks anodized? For apperance, like the cool looking gold sinks inside Enermax Libertys, to prevent unsightly damage during shipment / build production and to add some electrical insulation that could be had by tiny thermal pads under the diodes.
(I lap the bottom of all extruded aluminum HSs (NB and the tiny Zalman RAM sinks) because they are never flat and the thermal insulation. Use your ohm meter on an anodized surface ;) )

[jonnyGURU]

I like Madshrimps.be, I like jmke but I have tired of the pcp&c spin :p

I can't believe Liquid perpetuated the spin with the comment about the Turbo-Cool. Even in the radio interview linked from here a couple days ago, Doug stated that manufacturing is done overseas with finishing done in the U.S. To state that any PCP&C is "almost entirely fabricated in-house" is mind blowing. :(

Don't even get me started on $75K Chroma ATE's. ;)

Someone with sharper eyes will find the Seasonic 'S' on the PCB, Seasonic does build it's own PCBs.

Well... as I know you know GY, that's not a big deal. ;)

But I can understand not making the mention. When I first obtained the Corsair, you'll notice that Seasonic being the OEM was not mentioned in the review. I was asked to leave that out. I personally think it helps, but whatever. Of course, I talk about it all of the time now since it is common knowledge. :D

[Super Nade]

Fore some odd reason, I have ALWAYS confused Anodizing with Electroplating. :)

Never knew that this is some kind of a crystal growth process as opposed to electroplating or sputtering. You learn something new everyday! Thanks for the tip Galvo!

I found this from the first Google hit:
http://www.focuser.com/atm/anodize/anodize99.html
The following procedure is for anodizing aluminum parts. Anodizing will protect the aluminum parts by making the surface much harder than natural aluminum. Aluminum oxide is grown out of the surface during anodizing and then becomes aluminum hydrate that is extremely hard. The porous nature of the anodized layer allows the product to be dyed any color that is required. The method I describe is Type II anodizing (room temperature) and gives an anodized layer of .0002" to .001" (half which is grown into the surface and half out of the surface). Parts anodized will become slightly larger by about .0005" Type III (hard coat) anodizing is done at much colder temperatures and at higher current densities and can reach thicknesses of .002".

Now, carbon blackening is an interesting thermal transfer technique as well:
http://www.lostcircuits.com/advice/carbon_black/

Back on topic! :D

The intro reads like a paid for advertisement. I think such an intro does tend to bias the review somewhat. O.K boss, he should really stop with the Chroma-ATE spiel without a proper explaination for those unaware of what exactly that report constitutes. Zippy provides a very same test report for free and you don't hear too much about that, right?. :rolleyes:

The layout has to be the most efficient as far as topology I've seen for a PSU of this wattage and especially the amount of amperes on the 12V-Rail.
This may very well be true, but usually when such things are said, a word or two answering the questions "Why and How? " would have been nice. Maybe he was just pressed for time. :)

I'm a bit confused regarding one point:
Did PCP&C design the unit themselves whilst the build was done by Seasonic or is this a wholly Seasonic design?

[GalvanizedYankee]

Nade, I will sit corrected if wrong but I do believe the platform is all Seasonic's work and the ancillary stuff was left to pcp&c. It does look different / good in copper, never seen that done before. Zippy nickel plates thier housings.

Interesting about the carbon black. As an old diesel mechanic I hate the stuff, it took years to get it out of my skin. Used diesel crankcase lube oil is filled with carbon black :p

As a hot rodder of years gone by I learned to love phyics. Inertial mass! It applies to everything in racing cars or bikes, from the tinyest reciprocating part to the flywheel effect of wheels/tires. On rainy days I used to crunch numbers just for fun :) (Nade is a student of physics)

You might consider marking this site http://electrochem.cwru.edu/ed/encycl/art-a02-anodizing.htm
I take no credit for finding this site, DaveMax over at badcaps linked to the page on electrolytes.

[Spectre]

What ever happend to mentioning Seasonic as the OEM:confused:



It pisses of PC Power and Cooling to let the cat out of the bag....trust me ;)

[Super Nade]

Thanks for the info Galvo. There is a school of thought which believes otherwise, hence my confusion. So, do PCP&C do anything besides boxing up PSU's? Who designs the Win-Tact built units?

That's a nice link you provided (bookmarked BTW). Lots of good info on electrolytics! :)

[CAD4466HK]

It pisses of PC Power and Cooling to let the cat out of the bag....trust me ;)

Yeah, I bet it burns their asses, but the end user still has the right to know:)

[Super Nade]

It pisses of PC Power and Cooling to let the cat out of the bag....trust me ;)

Well, it's not the biggest of secrets anyway. :)

[Spectre]

So, do PCP&C do anything besides boxing up PSU's? Who designs the Win-Tact built units?


PC Power and Cooling claims they do the design on all their units, has them manufactured on their equipment/tooling which is installed in another companies factory, QC's them, and does all the retail end work. They claim none of their contract manufacturers make anything close to their units in wattage or design...........

[Spectre]

Well, it's not the biggest of secrets anyway. :)

Yeah, I bet it burns their asses, but the end user still has the right to know:)

If you follow the [H] much you would know why I say that the way I do ;)

[CAD4466HK]

If you follow the [H] much you would know why I say that the way I do ;)

Gotcha;)

[Super Nade]

PC Power and Cooling claims they do the design on all their units, has them manufactured on their equipment/tooling which is installed in another companies factory, QC's them, and does all the retail end work. They claim none of their contract manufacturers make anything close to their units in wattage or design...........

And how much of this is true? It would be easy to rip open a Silencer and the M12 for a quick visual inspection, right? The huge Hitachi in the center is a dead-on Seasonic approach and preference. Dunno what else to say. :)

[jonnyGURU]

Even if the PCB is theirs (which is easy because there's really no "mold costs" to creating PCB's) and the design is exclusive, I for one can tell you they do not have their own assembly equipment/tooling/etc. and line at Seasonic creating their power supplies. I don't recall the actual numbers (units per day per line) but I can tell you that it wouldn't be worth the investment to do that in an existing factory. If you're going to do that, you might as well have your own factory.

To be fair, I don't recall anyone from PCP&C ever saying that. Maybe Spectre is exaggerating to make a point? Not sure. ;)

[CAD4466HK]

In Spectre's defense, I've seen the post, that some dude got in contact with PCP&C about them CLAIMING that their units were unique, and that there were no similar products on the market.

They had given this dude permission to post their side of the story, and Spectre layed about 6 feet of pipe upside PCP&C's swollen heads:p

Then according to Doug{I think} got onto Seasonic's ass for some kind of infringment about having a {Seasonic} server PSU that was 750w and too
much like the Silencer, of course this is after PCP&C claimed that Seasonic
had no builds over 700w,wich in turn, Spectre proved them wrong:p

If I have gotten any of this wrong, I'm sure Spectre will straighten me out;)

[jonnyGURU]

I know. I saw that post. I just don't recall anything in it that eluded to PCP&C claiming that the production line at Seasonic was theirs. I can't think of anyone "owning" a line since one line can crank out about a month's worth of PSU's in a day. It would be foolish to keep a line idle for 29 days out of a month.

[CAD4466HK]

Yeah, just like it takes 75 large to test a PSU, right?;)

[Spectre]

To be fair, I don't recall anyone from PCP&C ever saying that. Maybe Spectre is exaggerating to make a point? Not sure. ;)



It came from one of the emails that was posted but is effective in making a point either way ;)

-----Original Message-----
From: vincent
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 10:16 AM
To: ; Frank Wang - Seasonic
Subject: Re: You have violated our agreement by making this product!

Dear Doug:

I am so sorry to know the mistake we made and Frank did issue an exclusive requirement for your 750W design, it must be some misunderstanding for our document center and marketing department to post this model on our web site. We are not going to sell this model at all otherwise we will not request your authurization to use your tooling when we visit you last time, please allow us to do something to correct this mistake.

I always see Frank follow up your project the first piority, and this situation also make him feel very bad.

Sorry again!!

Vincent
__________________________________________________ ______________

Note that I don't actually believe that they have their own tooling at Seasonic.

[GalvanizedYankee]

"to use your tooling," could be as simple as the jigs used for building units with an 80mm fan. ;)

[jonnyGURU]

I'm sure when Vincent said "tooling" he meant the configuration and programming of the equipment that builds and tests the PSU's and/or the schematic of the PCB, etc.

I was trying to think of "tools" as "molds" like when you own the mold for a chassis in a chassis factory (for example: Casetek has the tooling, but Thermaltake owns the mold.) But in a PSU, there's really no "mold" unless it's a unit with a modular interface, etc.

[Bbq]

Jonny, I don't even think so if it has a mldular interface. I would think they buy the parts and assemble, if even that.

[WonderSausage]

PCP&C never made their own stuff... they were outsourcing to Taiwan way before everybody else did :)

Their early ATX stuff was made by FSP. In the garage somwhere I have one of their _AT_ units (yes, as in 1980s), one of these days I should find it and take some photos inside & out.

WS

[jonnyGURU]

Jonny, I don't even think so if it has a mldular interface. I would think they buy the parts and assemble, if even that.

No. Pretty much everyone's modular interface is made in house. It's chep and easy. I could make you a PCB the shape of a McDonald's Fry Guy and have the circuitry on it spell out "Bbq" in blue LED's for about $5.

Nice thing about PCB's is there's no start up cost. You design the PCB in CAD and just upload it to a computer hooked up to what's essentially a giant printer that prints out the circuits. Perforations are made in the shape designated by the designer and someone stands at the end of the line breaking out the PCB's like they're splitting up saltines.

Yeah, there's some soldering to do, but a team of half-a-dozen 14-year-old Chinese girls with small hands can knock out a couple hundred "Bbq" LED laden boards an hour.

[jonnyGURU]

Their early ATX stuff was made by FSP.

I believe back in the day it was Sparkle (SPI) befoe they were acquired by FSP.

When I used to work RMA/RTV at ASI in 1998, everyone's killer (the 250W And 300W units) AT/PS2 power supplies were made by SPI. ;)

[Bbq]

Hahah that's one for the sig.

I remember about a year back, how easy pcb's are to make. A program like Proteus Ares, print it on a laser printer onto photo paper, heat press it in, etch. About an hour for a large pcb, from start to finish. And that was the basic High School PCB. I can't imagine it on a program that prints directly to pcb.

The sweat-shop is a different story.