Fud 101

[Super Nade]

http://www.pcpower.com/about/whatsnew/ComputerAmericaLiveRadioInterview_CEO_DougDodson_0 92605.mp3

He seems to be strongly pushing for bigger units. Slick marketing to snag Joe-sixpacks though.

[CAD4466HK]

Bump, my bad Nade

[Super Nade]

I'm not sure why they claim monopoly over everything that is good with PSU's? :)

Also, I'm not sure about the copy-cat comments. :D

[jonnyGURU]

Yeah. There's a lot of FUD there.

Mainly because they're talking a lot of apples and oranges there. I mean, Deer vs. PCP&C? Like there's no "in between?"

And the way Doug explains how their PSU's are rated at continuous power at 50C while "others" are rated at peak at 25C makes it sound like ALL OTHER power supplies are rated at peak at 25C.

"Sometimes the weight of the power supply alone is a dead giveaway." Good thing he used the word, "sometimes." This is actually a widely used "gage" of quality. But in my opinion, the weight misconception often goes hand and hand with the "size of the heatsinks equals the gage of quality" misconception. Of course, if it weren't for more efficient ("lighter") designs, we wouldn't have 1kW and up PSU's! If it weren't for more efficient designs, we wouldn't have 850W PSU in housings that are under 6" deep. And larger heatsinks aren't always a plus. In some instances they can actually block airflow, so often smaller heatsinks are used for that very reason.

I did love the little ego trip that started with Doug saying: "The reviewers can't test the product. It takes hundred of thousands of dollars in equipment to properly test a power supply." I'll let that comment stand on it's own laurels.

FYI: This interview was actually done a year ago. And this was around the time Doug bought the ATE that he invited "reviewers" to use. Over a year later, have we seen any reviews produced from this ATE? I've seen ATE tests done in Maxpoint's and FSP's facilities in Europe over the last year, though. ;)

Doug also claims that a lot of reviews are done on "ringers." Although it's quite easy for a company to do this, and I admit that I've even assumed a few companies of doing this, I've often been on the opposite end of an argument as to why this is actually a bad idea for the manufacturer. So I would like to say to Doug... "proof?"

One point I do have to say I was really surprised Doug said (most of what Doug says doesn't really surprise me) is that a bigger PSU is going to be more efficient. He couldn't have actually meant that, because Doug's a smart guy. He might exaggerate a lot of things, but he's not stupid.

The truth is simply "more efficient power supply are more efficient." ;)

Most power supplies that are efficient are not more efficient at all loads. Most power supplies are LESS efficient at the lowest loads, and are most efficient in the middle of their capability. So if you bought a PSU that's five times what you need, chances are, you're going to be running that PSU at the lowest point of it's efficiency.

For example: The new Ultra 600W EE had to go "back to the drawing board" because at 100% load it was 82% efficient, at 50% load it was 85% efficient, and at 20% load it was 79% efficient. To pass 80 plus certification, it has to be 80% and up at all three loads. So it had to go back to the engineers for some tweaking.

And of course, he had to bring up the whole "modular power supply" thing. I've gone through this before, but for those who missed it.... Doug states that the "small pins" used in the modular connectors limits current capability. The pins used in most modular power supplies are are actually the same size as what's on a regular Molex connector. And the resistance of a modular connector is NOT the same as two feet of wire even when the PSU is new and there's no corrosion, etc. He says the pin is LESS CAPABLE of carrying power, when in fact the connectors can carry MORE amperage than the wires in between the connectors. I do agree that it's another point of failure, but stick with that argument because everything else is just such over exaggerated hog wash that it just irritates me.

There's a few statements made at the beginning that I think need confirming too. Not saying they're lies, but I question their accuracy:

1. There's a statement that PCP&C was the first independently regulated power supply.

2. First redundant power system?

3. First SLI Certified PSU?

[GalvanizedYankee]

The only serious FUD for my ears was the modular pin discussion= way over the top. Hyper shares pins for power that that look to be DIMM mic. connections and these are an issue IMHO. Any PSU that uses standard Molex pins/shells w/latches at the modular interface is A-OK IMO.

The opening statement about a couple of $100k needed for proper PSU testing equipment was laughable to most that know better. I doubt jonny has $10k in his Sun-Moon machine ;)
My gut tells me jonny and others, like Xbit, are having an impact on PSU sales and pcp&c has to do something to save face in the market.
Not that pcp&c is bad, not at all, it's just that they are losing position in the market place. They are no longer perceived as top dog by most today. Meh! It was interesting but I learned nothing new. Kinda like a long hyper-ad for his products and customer service.

Thanks for the post Nade.:cool:

[Super Nade]

CAD: :D

Jon:
You pretty much summed up all of my thoughts. Regarding weight, I think he meant the weight of the extra components, not just the heatsink. I believe he's trying to say a jam-packed unit, with extra components is built better than a sparse one. Maybe, but not always.

The interviewer uses Deer units on his customer's computers..lol. He'd be in my dudes to avoid list! :D

You know what, it is amazing how many people buy into this. Heck, in this thread, plenty of folks have taken this interview to be the Gospel! Although the average enthusiast is quite savvy, there needs to be more awareness about these kinds of things.
http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=488514

With modular units, does one really loose a whopping 100W of power due to the connectors !!? I find that quite hard to believe!

Galvo:
I chuckled when he mentioned 100K testing equipment. I don't know maybe if they test a hundred units at once or if it is some sort of monstrous rack which tests differnt parameters on multiple units simultaneously. :)
Also, the smug "everybody copies us" remark was completely uncalled for.

You are right about so many other solid brands eating up market share. Etasis and Zippy are big in the Medical certified and Industrial arena along with other big OEM's they are making more than a huge dent in what was PCP&C's USP.
That is why they brought out the Silencer line. :)

[Oklahoma Wolf]

You are right about so many other solid brands eating up market share. Etasis and Zippy are big in the Medical certified and Industrial arena along with other big OEM's they are making more than a huge dent in what was PCP&C's USP.

I'll go one better and put forth the supposition that the larger OEM's like Delta and Liteon probably each do more business than PC P&C on any given year ;)

Not too much unexpected in the interview, but interesting nonetheless.

[JEDIYoda]

Yep alot of fud...
But I really actually wonder if as stated PC Power & Cooling will open up there test eqiupment to other companies? Yet I wonder if thats true who will utilize the test equipment.....

Then again the modular issue is even debated by technicians and people with advanced degrees...

Yet common sense would tell us even if there were to be a loss due to the modular aspect if really would be minimal at worse case scenario!!

Nice interview what needs to be remembered is you take the CEO of almost any of the top companies and they all will throw fud out to the general public.

It`s there job to promote there product....

Then its people like Jonny`s job...hehehe...to sort throigh the fud!!

Have a nice week people!!

[jonnyGURU]

Jon:
You pretty much summed up all of my thoughts. Regarding weight, I think he meant the weight of the extra components, not just the heatsink. I believe he's trying to say a jam-packed unit, with extra components is built better than a sparse one. Maybe, but not always.

He says that too. But it is said, on a separate note, that you can gage a PSU's quality by it's "weight."


Then again the modular issue is even debated by technicians and people with advanced degrees...

Yet common sense would tell us even if there were to be a loss due to the modular aspect if really would be minimal at worse case scenario!!

I don't think anyone argues that there is or is not an issue with modular connections. Like you said, common sense would dictate that there is some loss. And there is more of a potential for corrosion, a loose connection, and another potential point of failure. That's just a given, period. But there is argument to the extent of resistence and the degree of increased failure.