Silverstone Decathlon DA700 Super Silent review

[burebista]

@Anandtech (http://www.anandtech.com/casecoolingpsus/showdoc.aspx?i=3285).
It was only one day after we released the Enermax Pro82+ and Modu82+ review that we received an e-mail from Silverstone Taiwan telling us we were wrong about the assumption that Enermax offers the quietest power supplies at the moment. Silverstone told us about their new Decathlon DA700 that is supposed to be even quieter.
I don't understand what's so complicated on the label. :wtf:
The rail specification is rather obfuscated, requiring several perusals and the use of a calculator before you actually understand what you're reading. We have no idea why Silverstone makes it so complicated, but that's how the company does it, dating back to their beginnings.
All of the rails performed within specification and the 12V rail had just a little over 20mV ripple at higher loads.
But no graphics for ripple...
The efficiency didn't get above 85%, which is strange as we expected a little more than that.
Expected 90% or what?
Silverstone mentioned their results should be much better than the new Modu82+ and Pro82+ series from Enermax. After looking at the charts, we can definitely say Silverstone is telling the truth and not just blowing hot air.
Hmm, Protechnic fan at ~700 RPM vs. Enermax fan ~500 RPM. :rolleyes:

[Stefan555]

If Chris doesnt understand the label and he doesnt know how to read it and what it means, he ought to go back to school and stop reviewing psu's,

That's a low watermark, Chris.
-----------------EDIT---------------------------
To be fair, I gave a comment on Anandtech too

[SKYMTL]

The rail specification is rather obfuscated, requiring several perusals and the use of a calculator before you actually understand what you're reading. We have no idea why Silverstone makes it so complicated, but that's how the company does it, dating back to their beginnings.
IMO, this sounds like "filler" that was added by an editor. If Anandtech is reaching this far for "content", maybe they should think about cutting down the length of their PSU reviews (which have gone from 15-18 pages to 7 pages). I say this because a PRAY that the reviewer didn't say it. :(

The efficiency didn't get above 85%, which is strange as we expected a little more than that.

Oh my....

I find it amazing that some responses aren't modded out in the comments since (even though they are defending the review) they clearly take offense to anything being said and use some pretty nice 4-letter words.

[SKYMTL]

Well, here I go posing again. Seems there are some other interesting tidbits here and there:

Regardless, the three caps do a better job than a single cap would do in their place.

Interesting....

The capacitors are made by Jen Pan Electronics and rated at 150µF and 450V each. These may be cheaper than other options, but we have seen this brand in other high-quality power supplies as well.

This is a bit of an issue for me. I am 99.999999999% sure that this PSU uses a trio of Toshin Kogyo caps on the primary and NOT JPCONs. MEANWHILE in the conclusion (on the left) they state that the primary cap is a HITACHI and they don't have a classification for the secondaries (Teapos). At this point I am really scratching my head on this one guys...

Normally companies use PCBs for the cable management, and the approach Silverstone takes here is new to us. In this case, newer does not strike us as better. We can see flaws with this connection system as the jacks wiggle around and don't feel as secure as other designs. Resistance might be higher than necessary because of badly attached connectors.

Seems like they are once again talking about potential issues without PROVING anything. IMO, Silverstone's system is BETTER due to the fact that they DON'T use solder points directly on a PCB whic can cause all manner of problems if not done properly.

[Super Nade]

So this is more of a diss-cuss than a discuss? ;)

[SKYMTL]

I don't think so. This is a forum where people can post their opinions and no one here is saying the review is BAD. We are bringing things up for DISCUSSION. Take for example the comment about the trio of caps on the primary. I have no idea if that will help filtering any over a single or pair of larger caps....which is why I mentioned it to ge t other people's opinions.

Same goes for the modular interface. Just because I think the Silverstone method is superior to the PCB / solder method doesn't mean I am dissing Anandtech's review. It is my opinion which I am bringing up for discussion. ;)

[Super Nade]

Maybe I should have clarified... I've stopped reading AT's reviews. ;)

[SKYMTL]

Ah....makes more sense now. It is unfortunate so many people "in the know" have turned away from their PSU reviews since they seemed to have a VERY good goal in their first Methodology article.

[Stefan555]

It is unfortunate so many people "in the know" have turned away from their PSU reviews ........

Ouch, and I just registered there to make comments......Well, maybe I am excused because I am not in the know:lol:

[jonnyGURU]

Oh well... I felt that whatthehey couldn't go unchallenged. To attack like that and have no correct information to back your argument just floors me. I really have to wonder what these people do for a living outside of surfing the web and posting stupid comments all day. Even a McDonald's fry cook has more common sense.

EDIT: I was typing while Stefan was replying so it looks like we both nailed him to the cross. We'll see what happens.

[SKYMTL]

Ouch, and I just registered there to make comments......Well, maybe I am excused because I am not in the know:lol:

Judging from the comment directed at you in the review...well. :crazy:

[jonnyGURU]

Ah....makes more sense now. It is unfortunate so many people "in the know" have turned away from their PSU reviews since they seemed to have a VERY good goal in their first Methodology article.

Judging from the comment directed at you in the review...well. :crazy:

I'm not getting your drift today Mike. Can you clarify for me?

[SKYMTL]

Sorry Jon. First of all I was refering to Anand's first PSU article wheere they set some lofty goals. They later expanded on this by stating Ripple measurements would be the norm in all their reviews.

LINK (http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=3021)

So far ripple measurements have come and gone and then come and gone AGAIN. I remember when the methodology was posted here and everyone (myself included) was pretty damn happy that Anand's was going to be testing PSUs like you, Matt and Paul had been doing.

By people "in the know" I mean people like Nade and a few others I am aware of who know amazing amounts about PSUs who had begun to read the reviews and Anand's and have since stopped.

As for this comment:

Judging from the comment directed at you in the review...well.

I was refering to the post which you responded to in the Comment area of the review itself.

[Makalu]

They really do need to rewrite their methodology if they can ever actually settle on one.

[Spectre]

Wait only CWT uses 140mm fans?

Someone needs to tell SuperFlower.

[SKYMTL]

Wait only CWT uses 140mm fans?

Someone needs to tell SuperFlower.

Maybe they paid the IP fees for using it on their PSUs....:rolleyes:

[Andlcs]

Primary capacitors are Toshin Kogyo like SKYMTL said. You can see the "TK" from one of the pictures.

What's the real manufacturer of this PSU?

[jonnyGURU]

Wait only CWT uses 140mm fans?

Someone needs to tell SuperFlower.

I call shens. People squawk about the whole "modular PSU patent" like someone is trying to pull a fast one on the USPTO, but you can't PATENT using a particular size fan in a PSU. It has to be something more specific than that.

Primary capacitors are Toshin Kogyo like SKYMTL said. You can see the "TK" from one of the pictures.

What's the real manufacturer of this PSU?

It says in the first page of the review that it's Impervio. Impervio designs and engineers PSU's that IS Quasar's robot facility assembled.

[HOOfan_1]

Oh my....

I find it amazing that some responses aren't modded out in the comments since (even though they are defending the review) they clearly take offense to anything being said and use some pretty nice 4-letter words.

If you are talking about what I think you are talking about, I think that guy's comments represent himself moreso than Stefan. Stefan put out a little creative criticism with no overly insulting remarks and then is attacked with flawed information.

[Stefan555]

I must admit, I was not overly nice, but I could not hold my mouth

[SKYMTL]

If you are talking about what I think you are talking about, I think that guy's comments represent himself moreso than Stefan. Stefan put out a little creative criticism with no overly insulting remarks and then is attacked with flawed information.

That was what I was talking about but I didn't name names because forum wars don't sit right with my delicate stomach.

I still want to know where the JPCON caps observation came from tho...

[spursindonesia]

Hmm, the review has been edited and now it says Toshin Kogyo (or i should say Kyogo, LOL :D) caps used in the primary side. Perhaps if AT can't get PSU review done professionally, they should outsource it altogether. :cool:

[jonnyGURU]

Wait only CWT uses 140mm fans?

Someone needs to tell SuperFlower.

I just talked to someone in the industry that said it was SuperFlower that patented using 140MM fans in PSU's and not CWT.

Although I still can't see how someone can patent the use of a particular size fan in a PSU.

[Killy]

Didn't Ultra vaguely patent the PSU?

[jonnyGURU]

I think they patented electricity.

[HOOfan_1]

I think they patented the process by which an organism sustains life....so if you want to keep living you better start paying them a licensing fee.

[SilverStone]

It says in the first page of the review that it's Impervio. Impervio designs and engineers PSU's that IS Quasar's robot facility assembled.

Just so no one gets angry about this after they purchased one, we had to move OP700/800 and DA700/800 production to Etasis's assembly line for a while late last year during the holiday season because IS Quasar could not keep up with the volume we needed. Although Etasis doesn't have robots, their assembly line is certainly one of the best.

[jonnyGURU]

Ah.... Interesting.

[SKYMTL]

I still want to know if the "3 primary caps are better than one" statement holds any truth.

[Super Nade]

I still want to know if the "3 primary caps are better than one" statement holds any truth.

AFAIK, not really. ESR is important, but not an ultra critical issue on the Primary side or in any post-rectifier reservoir application (although it is two orders of magnitude higher than say an OSCON....400mOhm v/s 5mOhm), when compared to the primary side application.

I think layout-size and availability dictates what is being used. Otherwise, everybody and their brother would prefer 10 x 39uF, 420V caps over one primary cap. There is also the issue of degradation and longevity at play here. As a rule of thumb, with electrolytics, larger cans can dissipate heat better. If you notice Seasonic or some Zippy units, you see the heatsink touching the Primary can. This is because they do get hot.

I did some calculations on this issue, let me see if I can find my notebook. :)

[Killy]

If the caps are wired in parallel, holding everything else as 'idealized' it's simply one cap with the added capacitance, right?

[Super Nade]

Yes, but the point is to lower equivalent resistance because if the caps are in parallel, the resistances are also in parallel. AFAIK, the main reason a single large cap is used in place of several small caps on the primary side is because of convenience. Also you have longer hold up time with a single capacitor versus 10 capacitors in parallel.

[jonnyGURU]

AFAIK, not really. ESR is important, but not an ultra critical issue on the Primary side or in any post-rectifier reservoir application (although it is two orders of magnitude higher than say an OSCON....400mOhm v/s 5mOhm), when compared to the primary side application.

I think layout-size and availability dictates what is being used. Otherwise, everybody and their brother would prefer 10 x 39uF, 420V caps over one primary cap. There is also the issue of degradation and longevity at play here. As a rule of thumb, with electrolytics, larger cans can dissipate heat better. If you notice Seasonic or some Zippy units, you see the heatsink touching the Primary can. This is because they do get hot.

I did some calculations on this issue, let me see if I can find my notebook. :)

Larger cans do dissipate heat better, cost less than multiple cans equaling the same value and, just like anything when you use mupltiple components in place of one, your potential for failure increases (not due to bad design, but just due to "the odds".)

For example: Matsushita had a bad run of caps about a year ago. Not all of them failed, but a high percentage of them failed when used well within spec. About 5% (which is too high since typical is about .1%). If two of the caps were used in the device, 5% becomes 10%. If three, 15%, etc. Even without this "known issue", .1% becomes .2%. .2% becomes .3%, etc.