Thermaltake Toughpower 750 owners: Please Be Informed

[Sphere]

That your Toughpower 750 series is known to have the *buzzing* issues that I and others have been complaining about.

At this point it's not known whether it's a complete lot/batch or just a partial. IT INDEED IS FACT THIS ISSUE IS KNOWN BY THERMALTAKE, AND YOU KNOW DAMN WELL THEY DO NOT WANT US TO HAVE THIS INFORMATION.

Please be sure to use this information when it's time to pick your next psu.

I'm on my third 750 now, and this one still *buzzs* to beat hell when under load.

Guess the secrets out Taiwan ;)

Could we make this a sticky until TT resolves this issue? thanks

Sphere

[GilmourD]

Did you ever try isolating the PSU from the motherboard outside of a case like JonnyGURU suggested in your other thread to see if it's a component on your board buzzing or if it actually eminates from the PSU?

[Sphere]

Yes I did, and I tried it in another case, along with my MSI K8N Neo 4 F, as well as outside of the case.

As stated in the topic of this thread...TT has full knowledge of this issue, you going to have to trust me on this, it IS fact. It's also fact, that I'm just one of many 750 users who are experiencing this issue.

Sphere

[GilmourD]

Eeep... It's a good thing that PSU is out of my budget... Cuz I was kinda considering it for a while.

Anyway... If it's buzzing... A buzz is a mechanical vibration... I wonder what component is causing it. You could always do what I do with all-tube guitar amps: Open the thing up, power it up, and poke around with a wooden chopstick. That's how amp techs fix parasitic oscillations in tube amps and it might help you isolate which part is vibrating. :)

[Sphere]

If I take off the housing, then my warranty is void. It's fine on the desktop, but once you put it under load, it sounds like a colony of bees is nesting next to me.

The idea of using chopsticks is intriguing though!

[BryaN.sG]

You're getting bees? Mine sounds like crickets.
I wonder which is more irritating.

[GilmourD]

Ah, that is true... I always forget about warranties. LOL Sounds to me like a spot of hot glue or some wax potting could fix the problem. Maybe it's a transformer that wasn't potted correctly. Hmmm...

Yeah, the chopstick idea is great. A piece of wood you can poke with and won't get you zapped. At least a computer PSU drops the voltages, but the Amperage is still high. Inside a guitar amp, you're working with anywhere from 200VDC (in a small, single-ended Fender combo) to 600VDC (on the power tubes of some Marshalls and MusicMan amps). I saw a video of a guy get tossed against a wall by a guitar amp after getting zapped by it.

[GalvanizedYankee]

OK Sphere, I'll trust you that it's a known issue with Thermaltake.

Can you guys post MP3 files of this noise? That'd be nice.

[Sphere]

Sure, in your opinion, what would be the easiest way to record it?

GilmourD...I'll remember that , I've got an Ampeg VH 140C that's gonna' need to hit the shop, every now and then it fades in and out and I can't figure out why, but I do know I won't be working on it....but, it's not a tube.

EDIT: Actually I can plug a mic in the lappy, and record it from there.....I'll give it a go.

[GilmourD]

Sure, in your opinion, what would be the easiest way to record it?

GilmourD...I'll remember that , I've got an Ampeg VH 140C that's gonna' need to hit the shop, every now and then it fades in and out and I can't figure out why, but I do know I won't be working on it....but, it's not a tube.

EDIT: Actually I can plug a mic in the lappy, and record it from there.....I'll give it a go.

That mic should do a good job. Doesn't need to be studio quality audio. :)

That's solid-state, eh? Hmmm... Fading in an out on a tube amp would usually be a tube... Does it do it when it's warmed up, or right as you power it up? And is it more of a cut-out, or does it fade out gradually? If the amp has reverb, try turning the reverb off and see what happens.

[Sphere]

I'm having issue with the sensitivity of the mic, not sure how to amplify the input......http://www.filecloud.com/files/file.php?user_file_id=295193

[jonnyGURU]

Open the thing up, power it up, and poke around with a wooden chopstick. That's how amp techs fix parasitic oscillations in tube amps and it might help you isolate which part is vibrating. :)

I use a popsicle stick. They're thin enough to fit into a fan grill, etc. so warranties don't have to be voided.

But it's probably a batch of transformers with bad windings, or not properly glazed.

[BryaN.sG]

Here's mine.
http://www.sharebigfile.com/file/20993/Toughpower750.wav.html

[CAD4466HK]

Here's mine.
http://www.sharebigfile.com/file/20993/Toughpower750.wav.html

Sounds like this little place called Stone Island after it rains,or floods I should say:p
It sits right on the shores of Lake Monroe{Sanford}
and after it rains, there's more varieties of crickets out there then I've ever
seen on Animal Planet:p

That is a no go for a Tt PSU in my future;)

[JEDIYoda]

Sounds like this little place called Stone Island after it rains,or floods I should say:p
It sits right on the shores of Lake Monroe{Sanford}
and after it rains, there's more varieties of crickets out there then I've ever
seen on Animal Planet:p

That is a no go for a Tt PSU in my future;)

yep..my thoughts exactly!!

[madmat]

Sounds like this little place called Stone Island after it rains,or floods I should say:p
It sits right on the shores of Lake Monroe{Sanford}
and after it rains, there's more varieties of crickets out there then I've ever
seen on Animal Planet:p

That is a no go for a Tt PSU in my future;)

You're blaming the PSU in BryaN's case and he's already said that on an entirely different mobo it had no issues. I wish I could lay my hands on one of the ones Sphere has so I could toss it on the load tester and play with different loads on the rails and see what I got, if anything.

I'm kind of wondering if it has anything to do with the load on the 5VSB rail and how it's being loaded.

[Sphere]

Bryan,

I get that as well, but for me it takes a good half hour of gaming/benchmarking to get it to make that, almost like a *cap* screeching.

[CAD4466HK]

You're blaming the PSU in BryaN's case and he's already said that on an entirely different mobo it had no issues. I wish I could lay my hands on one of the ones Sphere has so I could toss it on the load tester and play with different loads on the rails and see what I got, if anything.

I'm kind of wondering if it has anything to do with the load on the 5VSB rail and how it's being loaded.

Your damn right I'm blaming the PSU:p
BryaN and Sphere are not the first and only victims of this phenomena.
I've seen it first hand with a clients Tt TP 650 on two different mobos
{MSI & eVGA} and it's kind of funny that his fallback PSU{Aspire:p }
can push that rig with no noise at all;)
His 650 sounds like a rusty screen door, opening and closing;)
It only makes this noise when defragging or gaming:confused:

Untill Tt can get their shit together and ditch the CWT platform,
there WILL NOT BE A Tt PSU in my future;)

[jonnyGURU]

Untill Tt can get their shit together and ditch the CWT platform,
there WILL NOT BE A Tt PSU in my future;)

Aw.. come on... Ditch the CWT platform? They just ditched the Sirtech and HEC platform! Now we need to have them ditch CWT? :wall:

[CAD4466HK]

Aw.. come on... Ditch the CWT platform? They just ditched the Sirtech and HEC platform! Now we need to have them ditch CWT? :wall:

Why don't they just hit up Seasonic?
Everyone else is:p

[JEDIYoda]

Well..... TT even started using 120mm fans because that was supposedly the way of the future.........

[madmat]

Ummmm...only one Toughpower has a 120, the rest are 140s.

[jonnyGURU]

...the rest are 140s.

Now THAT is the wave of the future.

I was also going to point out that the TR2's also have 120MM fans.

[krampak]

Now THAT is the wave of the future.
It's a bit off topic but.. what do you think about the PC Power&Cooling opinion about fan sizes ?
Most low-noise ATX power supplies today utilize a top-mounted 120mm fan rather than a rear-mounted 80mm fan. The 120’s favorable reputation is based on the fact that under low to medium load conditions, the 120mm fan provides sufficient cooling at low RPM and low RPM fans are generally very quiet.

However, problems occur with this design when the load exceeds 50%-60%. Because the 120mm fan consumes about 1.5” of vertical space inside the PSU, heat sinks, capacitors, and other components are about 30% smaller in height compared to a PSU with a rear-mounted fan. The smaller parts can handle less current, so the maximum power available with the 120mm design is limited. And, because the heat sinks have less surface area, more air flow is needed with this design to keep the thermal situation under control. With 80%-100% load, the 120’s fan speed can double and the noise level can jump by up to 20dB.

In conclusion, for systems that require more than 50% of the power supply’s capacity, a well-engineered PSU with a rear-mounted 80mm fan will provide superior performance and reliability (due to larger components) at a noise level comparable to a PSU equipped with a 120mm fan.

[Spectre]

It's a bit off topic but.. what do you think about the PC Power&Cooling opinion about fan sizes ?

About the same as I do of their opinion of modular cables ;)

[krampak]

Mmmmm so.... you are agree or not ? :p That sounds right to me... but maybe is just marketing to sell more PCP&C units :confused:

[jonnyGURU]

As with most PCP&C FUD, there's a lot of generalizations and inaccuracies in their statements. Like the statement about the height restriction. Yes, there is a height restriction, but if the components don't NEED to be as tall as PCP&C is leading you to believe, why not use the extra 1" of space?

The only "problem" I see with 120MM and up fans in PSU's is the direction of the air flow, hense the M12's 60MM fan solution. But there's often equally adequate solutions for this problem other than a second fan on the inside of the PSU. For example: I'm sure you've seen the acetate air damn used in some PSU's that forces the air towards the front of the PSU. Another solution is to move the PCB towards the back of the PSU housing, which is why there's often a 1" gap at the front of the unit. Then we have the "heatpipe" idea that Zalman has incorporated, which moves the heat towards the back of the PSU housing where the air HAS TO exit.

[BryaN.sG]

Oh well, a motherboard change to EVGA's 680i didn't seem to help the PSU.
It's still buzzing away..

[Bbq]

I'm not sure where PCP&C are getting their inch and a half figure..
http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/6030/dsc00252bo7.jpg

$20 Nexus fan, 25mm thick. 1". I've NEVER seen a 38 in a psu.

me, I still Prefer 80's. Just because i have a p180 and so i can get straight front to back airflow.

[jonnyGURU]

Haha... Funny. Notice I said 1"? That's because I know they're 1" (some are actually only 20MM.) I didn't even know they said 1.5" probably because I subconciously know that NOBODY IS STUPID ENOUGH TO SAY A FAN IS 1.5" THICK!!!! LOL! LOL!!!!!

Like I said.... FUD.

[Sphere]

Oh well, a motherboard change to EVGA's 680i didn't seem to help the PSU.
It's still buzzing away..


Same results going to the MSI board as well....this is in fact why I believe it's strictly related to the psu.

EDIT:Mine is becoming increasingly louder, played a couple rounds of 2142 and had to take the sound up another notch to help dampen the noise. Come Monday I'll be contacting the proper offices to see if indeed there is anything I can do about it....this is a bunch of crap.

[Sphere]

Ok, just got off the phone with the product manager, I will have an answer this coming week from the testing in Taiwan.

I've also been told by Corsair/Antec/OCZ that ANY psu that exibits buzzing is an instant RMA, so any argument stating different can surely be taken up with any 3 of the above mentioned companies.

At this stage of the game, I'm required to have a statement from Thermaltake, as to their intentions with replacement/refund...either or is fine, just give me one that doesn't make noises...if not, then we will be proceeding further.

[sata]

Have you got more information on this?

[krampak]

I've tried today a 650W(not modular) and a 750W version of the thoughpower and you are right... they have a several buzzing ... it's quite anoying. Too bad it's probably the only negative spect of this rock stable unit.. (ok, and it's poor aesthetics and some ripple in 12V line :P).

[jonnyGURU]

What ripple? How are you measuring it?

I only saw 100mV at the most at full load on the 750W model.

[krampak]

I was refering to that 100mV :) It was at 750W load... ok, no ripple issue then :p

[jonnyGURU]

Yeah.. especially considering I've seen other PSU's with > 150mV at full load. ;)

[Sphere]

So far nothing is resolved, the prod manager that I talked to last week said that Taiwan should have had time to test both of my rma's to provide their *findings*

I'm going to continue to try and get a hold of a living person-vs-leaving a message. I've also enlisted outside help, before my last conversation with Thermaltake. At this point I'm required for to get a statement from TT on their intentions, whether we play this RMA game or I'm refunded for my purchase.

Based on what they say will decide which direction we'll go :)

[procreate]

I saw a video of a guy get tossed against a wall by a guitar amp after getting zapped by it.

got a link to that?

[CAD4466HK]

I too want to see:p
I once saw a guy get thrown out of his slides, trying to light his rip off of a
277v light switch with the ass end of a pencil, the last time I was in jail:lol:

[GilmourD]

got a link to that?

It was a few years ago... I think I found it somewhere on ax84.com .

[JEDIYoda]

So far nothing is resolved, the prod manager that I talked to last week said that Taiwan should have had time to test both of my rma's to provide their *findings*

I'm going to continue to try and get a hold of a living person-vs-leaving a message. I've also enlisted outside help, before my last conversation with Thermaltake. At this point I'm required for to get a statement from TT on their intentions, whether we play this RMA game or I'm refunded for my purchase.

Based on what they say will decide which direction we'll go :)

Well I am glad they are working with you on this!! Please keep us informed.
My Nephew just bought a Thermaltake 850 and he Loves it!! Although he says its not exactly quiet but its not exactly loud. But thats cool!! I told him to start reading these forums to stay on top of things!!

[Sphere]

I'll keep up the thread, TT is supposed to be getting back with me 12/6 to tell me their findings in Taiwan, I'm not optimistic.

I haven't had any problems with their rma department at all, just the *wildlife* that live in the psu.

[CAD4466HK]

Hey Sphere,

What would be your recomendation on this PSU:confused:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817153036

[Sphere]

I'd take it as a gift......and return it for a Corsair.

[Sphere]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v208/joshko/bee.jpg


+



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v208/joshko/cricket.jpg




= http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v208/joshko/TT.jpg



Any questions?:D

[CAD4466HK]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :wall: :wall: :wall:

[cfour]

My new pc is 3 weeks old and looks like the crickets have moved in aswell. Having a bad run with this pc, first 8800 gtx and its faulty resistor now this.

I have a TT 750w and noticed the cricket like noise today, wondering if I should take it back, just dreading not getting a replacement psu from the retailer and having to wait, just like the week for them to confirm the resistor problem with the gtx.

system specs:
E6600, 8800GTX, 4gig ram, 2x wd raptors, xfi, p180, etc

[Sphere]

cfour,

T.T. knows about the bad batch of parts...or shall I say out of spec but yet, still send them to retail :crazy:

Do what I did (I'm on #3 by the way and soon to be on #4) RMA it and have them pay for the shipping. They will cross ship so your not out a psu. Don't settle for anything less or take any shit. Be very firm, but still polite.

If it's been less than 30 days, send it back to the place you bought it and get another psu from another company....T.T. is NOT the way to go....Corsair has nice units and some other mfgr's you'll see around this site.

It's kind of funny, another member here who's been around since the get go of this site pm'd me last night saying he too had a client that has a 700w T.T. that he has to RMA.

Heres the # for Thermaltake 1 (800) 988-1088 Ext 103-RMA Customer Service
Ext 132 Technical Support.

Keep this thread updated....I'll be posting later after my conversation with them.....again.

Edit:

Again, get rid of that psu and go with another brand, don't be stuck RMA'ing to high hell like me.

[Sphere]

Talked to tech support again today(they were supposed to contact me Wednesday, but didn't) nothing new, no reports from Taiwan on their testing and no product manager to speak with, just another option to cross ship for the RMA :fire:

[BryaN.sG]

I got this reply from johnny of Tt forums:

Hi Bryan,
RD already know how to solve the pitched buzzing / whining noises which is change some components. They are testing the new components' reliability and will cut in to produce new PSU soon.
Thanks!

Hopefully the new rev. would be out soon.
Wonder if performance will take a hit on the revised PSU.

[Stoffa]

Question to JonnyGuru:

When you tested this Tt PSU did u notice this weird buzzing stuff. So far there are two people complaining in this thread, while I'm sure many more bought this PSU. Were they just unlucky or does this psu really make THAT much more noise than a 8800GTX and oc'd E6600+Tuniq Tower combined?

Besides the comments from these users this psu seems godly to me:
A) Low cost
B) Very good performance
C) Well available
D) A 9 from Jonny
E) Modular (!)

It seems that many people also consider the Corsair to be great, but I can't find it for sale in the Netherlands myself, that's why I'm considering the Tt.

[jonnyGURU]

As madmat and I both stated: We've BOTH reviewed this PSU and neither one of us experienced any buzzing.

[Stoffa]

Nice, *ordering* :)

[Stoffa]

Got one more question, concerning the Stacker 831 case in combination with this PSU:

According to this bit of text:

Yes, you can install a 120mm fan here too. Unfortunately, the fan bracket will interfere with PC Power & Cooling 850W, 1KW and some modular power supplies that are longer than normal.

If I want to use a 120mm fan as outtake in the top of the case the PSU shouldn't be very long. Can you tell me something about the length of it Jonny? Was it especially long?

[Bun-Bun]

Got one more question, concerning the Stacker 831 case in combination with this PSU:

According to this bit of text:

Yes, you can install a 120mm fan here too. Unfortunately, the fan bracket will interfere with PC Power & Cooling 850W, 1KW and some modular power supplies that are longer than normal.

If I want to use a 120mm fan as outtake in the top of the case the PSU shouldn't be very long. Can you tell me something about the length of it Jonny? Was it especially long?

It is 160mm deep so it is not overly long. One of the smallest PSU's in its class. Which is why Im considering purchasing one.

[Sanko]

hrmm.... user of TT Toughpower 750w cable management. mine is having the buzz problem too. it's buzzing around once i start orthos. sigh