Capacitor aging and the effects...

[Quiksilver]

How does aging of the capacitors effect the wattage of the power supply and how badly does it effect it?

The question comes after trying to prove to a friend of mine that he will not need an 800+ Watt power supply to power a system with the following specs:

Case - Antec P182
Mobo - Gigabyte GA-M57SLI-S4
CPU - AMD X2 6000+
RAM - Geil 4GB (2x2GB) DDR2-800
Sound Card - E-MU 70EM896206000
Video Card - Foxconn 8800GTX x2 [SLI]
Hard Drive - Western Digital Raptor 150GB x2 [RAID]
NIC - Zonet ZEN3320E
DVD-R/RW - Asus DRW-2014L1T

(Leaving out mouse, keyboard, speakers, and OS -- not needed--)

As you can clearly see it is a fairly low-wattage system, and wouldn't need anything more than Corsair 520HX to run this system for now and years to come.

The problem is, he looks at the Outervision PSU Calculator [http://www.extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp] and because he wants to keep the system for years to come, adds a 35% capacitor aging to it, which nearly triples the actual wattage needed by the system and for that he believes that I am wrong and he will need an 800+ Watt PSU.

I've tried explaining it to him why that PSU calc. is fairly inaccurate and that C.A. wouldn't have that dramatic of an effect on his system.

Any help explaining this is very detailed layman's terms? [You can add a nice technical brief to it after words if you would like].

[jonnyGURU]

Video Card - Foxconn 8800GTX x2 [SLI]

As you can clearly see it is a fairly low-wattage system, and wouldn't need anything more than Corsair 520HX to run this system for now and years to come.



No.. I don't clearly see that. He has TWO GTX cards. I wouldn't run that with anything less than either a 550W PSU with a single +12V rail or a 600+ with four or more +12V rails.

And capacitor aging IS a serious problem... with certain power supplies. If he gets a quality unit, it won't be an issue.

No offense, but why are you so worried about how he spends his money? If he has the money for an 800W, there's no reason why he shouldn't? You can't have too big of a power supply. You can have too small of one.

[Quiksilver]

No.. I don't clearly see that. He has TWO GTX cards. I wouldn't run that with anything less than either a 550W PSU with a single +12V rail or a 600+ with four or more +12V rails.

And capacitor aging IS a serious problem... with certain power supplies. If he gets a quality unit, it won't be an issue.

No offense, but why are you so worried about how he spends his money? If he has the money for an 800W, there's no reason why he shouldn't? You can't have too big of a power supply. You can have too small of one.

That was his build outline at the time, but I had informed him about the 8800GT and the newer 8800GTS coming next month.

It's also not what he plans on paying for upfront, more-less for his upgrade path in the future.

Would your opinion change if it were two of the newer 8800GTS's or 2 8800GT's instead of the SLI'd GTX's. Considering they are both going to be less power-hungry.

I am so concerned with where he spends the money because he he could save the money and put it towards something else, or even just pocket the saved cash.

His budget is about 2 to 3 grand, so if he could get a system that is closer to 2 grand it would be better for him overall. Especially if he can do it without skimping out on quality parts.

Even if he were to go with say the Corsair 620HX instead of the 520, it still remains cheaper than what he is looking it.

[Quiksilver]

I should probably mention the 800 Watt power supply he's looking at:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817189015

Frankly I could only find one review for it.

[mpilchfamily]

I thought Cap aging affected the voltage and not the wattage. I thought cap aging affected the voltage stability and the ripple.

[jonnyGURU]

I thought Cap aging affected the voltage and not the wattage. I thought cap aging affected the voltage stability and the ripple.

Affect the voltage; affect the wattage. ;) And by wattage I was assuming he meant "at greater loads." We've all seen Antecs with failed caps that worked fine up until a graphics card upgrade.

My opinion changes a little if we're not talking about GTX's. If we're talking about GT's, then a Corsair HX520 or VX550 would be fine, although I would still stick to around the 600W neighborhood. But my opinion doesn't change about steering him in that direction from an 800W in the first place, although I would steer him from THAT 800W since there's little background on that particular unit and $199 seems a little high no matter who's 800W we're talking about. I can understand you wanting to encourage putting the money elsewhere, but at least he's not looking at putting a ticking time bomb in his PC and he's only going to save about $50 in his $2 to $3000 build, so I'd leave him be as far as wattage goes.

[mp666]

How does aging of the capacitors effect the wattage of the power supply and how badly does it effect it?

The question comes after trying to prove to a friend of mine that he will not need an 800+ Watt power supply to power a system with the following specs:

Case - Antec P182
Mobo - Gigabyte GA-M57SLI-S4
CPU - AMD X2 6000+
RAM - Geil 4GB (2x2GB) DDR2-800
Sound Card - E-MU 70EM896206000
Video Card - Foxconn 8800GTX x2 [SLI]
Hard Drive - Western Digital Raptor 150GB x2 [RAID]
NIC - Zonet ZEN3320E
DVD-R/RW - Asus DRW-2014L1T

(Leaving out mouse, keyboard, speakers, and OS -- not needed--)


I'd go for higher capacity drives. 750GB or 1GB. Latest editions of these drives will be as fast or faster than raptors.

As you can clearly see it is a fairly low-wattage system, and wouldn't need anything more than Corsair 520HX to run this system for now and years to come.


This is not necessarily a low wattage system. Future additions and overclocking may also increase the need for a higher wattage unit.

The problem is, he looks at the Outervision PSU Calculator [http://www.extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp] and because he wants to keep the system for years to come, adds a 35% capacitor aging to it, which nearly triples the actual wattage needed by the system and for that he believes that I am wrong and he will need an 800+ Watt PSU.

I've tried explaining it to him why that PSU calc. is fairly inaccurate and that C.A. wouldn't have that dramatic of an effect on his system.

Any help explaining this is very detailed layman's terms? [You can add a nice technical brief to it after words if you would like].

Using this calculator is not a bad idea. It gives you some estimations for worst case scenarios. He may not need the 850W he's chosen but something over 600 W is better. And if he insists on 8800GTX setup, Corsair 520 (and very likely any PSU in this range) doesn't feature four PCI-e connectors. He can use adapters but this is not an elegant solution. I'd go for higher wattage units like the ones below :
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139006
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817608007
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151031
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817341011

[D-Juice]

If you want the PSU to be futureproof, get something that will run at around 50% capacity at full system load. Theres an sticky with SLI power consumption, it may help you.

[spursindonesia]

If you can buy two 8800 GTX's for around 900 US$, why can't you atleast have budget of around 200 US$ for a good quality PSU with enough wattage to throw around ? Even if he doesn't go near 70% of his PSU rating, you'll still get a silent and low rippled PSU, because of not pushing it to the limit.

[D-Juice]

Agree....With his budget I would get something like an great 750W single rail PSU or better.

[Quiksilver]

I don't know what you guy's missed about this was his original build outline, and now he just plans on using the 8800GT in SLI.

In any case he has his mind set on an 800+ Watt power supply and I managed to talk him into this PSU instead:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817608007

Which I don't have any qualms with because it is a quality PSU and is cheaper than his original plan.

Thanks anyway guys.

[jonnyGURU]

That's an EXCELLENT alternative. Better unit, more potential power and $50 less.

[mp666]

I don't know what you guy's missed about this was his original build outline, and now he just plans on using the 8800GT in SLI.


Good, now he can use something with only two peg connectors if he wishes. Also if he doesn't have a huge monitor and resolution this setup will be good.

In any case he has his mind set on an 800+ Watt power supply and I managed to talk him into this PSU instead:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817608007


This is the second one of the list in my previous post and a good choice IMO.