Possible PSU Problem? PCP&C 610W

[Malazan]

Bought this earlier in the week, and it's run fine until this morning when i switched on PC and could not even get into BIOS, no splash screen, no "beep" - nothing on screen at all.

Could it be my PSU has failed already?

PS The HDD spins, the lights work, the fans work also.

It's not the monitor because it works fine with this PC.

[madmat]

Could be the mobo or any other number of issues. Have you checked all the plugs on the mobo to verify that they're fully seated? If the CPU plug isn't making contact you'll suffer the same issue. Good luck!

BTW, I edited the title so it's not all caps, yes I realize you're distraught but it's not a reason to shout in the title.

[cypherpunks]

It's not likely to be the PSU. It's vaguely possible for, say, the 3.3V supply that powers the memory to fail while the +12V supply that powers the fans, hard drives, and processor to stay up, but it's not likely. They're all taps off one big transformer.

But there are lots of possibilities, I'm afraid. You'll just have to keep trying things. (Do the keyboard LEDs blink?)

[Malazan]

Oh jesus, it could be a billion and one things by the sounds of it. This after nearly six months of hell. I get my PC working properly for ONE DAY and it's dies on me again.

I'm going to take it to pieces and build from scratch again. Take the whole lot out.

But why would this just happen overnight?

[madmat]

Possibly you bumped the PC and a plug backed out enough to stop making contact. Gremlins? A marginal part already in the PC dies just to prove Murphy's law accurate? There are more reasons than Jonny's forum has bandwidth for you to read... the long and short of it is that things happen just to screw your head up most often than not.

[Super Nade]

Take out all parts, place the MB on its box, reset the CMOS, use 1 stick of RAM, reseat the video-card, reconnect the PSU and see if it POST's.

[signmeuptoo]

I have learned from experience that even a bad HD can cause such problems, beliieve it or not!

Take a deep breath, find something to calm yourself (I know how you feel, you have my compassion), do something far away from this computer for like a day.

Then come back to the computer, take everything out of the box. (Remember, it is very important to always unplug your power supply so it isn't feeding even stand by juice to the system even if the system isn't running, BEFORE mucking around with any internal connections with only a few exceptions.)

Use the box for the motherboard *without the foam* and hook up supply, one stick of RAM in the slot manual says is for one stick, double check your CPU to make sure HS/F is well seated, plug in video card, try to POST, if it does, add HD and try again or add OD and try again, and so on.

I know what it is like to go through endless problems, I have myself, and what's worse is I am quite poor so for me a problem means no computer for even months if ever. All you can do is ease yourself and narrow it down.

If you can get it to POST then check your RAM settings or set them to manufacturer's timings/settings and go on from there.

You get it, I know you will, hang in there pal!

[Malazan]

Take out all parts, place the MB on its box, reset the CMOS, use 1 stick of RAM, reseat the video-card, reconnect the PSU and see if it POST's.

What is the point of that?

What about optical and HDD?

[madmat]

It removes any possible problematic hardware from the equation. If the mobo posts then start adding parts back one by one until the PC is rebuilt outside the case or it fails to post. Then you know exactly what the problem is.

[Malazan]

I have learned from experience that even a bad HD can cause such problems, beliieve it or not!

Take a deep breath, find something to calm yourself (I know how you feel, you have my compassion), do something far away from this computer for like a day.

Then come back to the computer, take everything out of the box. (Remember, it is very important to always unplug your power supply so it isn't feeding even stand by juice to the system even if the system isn't running, BEFORE mucking around with any internal connections with only a few exceptions.)

Use the box for the motherboard *without the foam* and hook up supply, one stick of RAM in the slot manual says is for one stick, double check your CPU to make sure HS/F is well seated, plug in video card, try to POST, if it does, add HD and try again or add OD and try again, and so on.

I know what it is like to go through endless problems, I have myself, and what's worse is I am quite poor so for me a problem means no computer for even months if ever. All you can do is ease yourself and narrow it down.

If you can get it to POST then check your RAM settings or set them to manufacturer's timings/settings and go on from there.

You get it, I know you will, hang in there pal!



I appreciate your sentiments and you thoughts, but i've already had six months of this shit already, i have tried the calm and measured approach to troubleshooting and it got me nowhere.

When my PC kept shutting down during gaming i instinctively and intuitively blamed the PSU, but instead of RMA'ing it right away, i went online and asked for help, this led to months and months of and literally HUNDREDS OF HOURS of messing around - trying this, trying that, and you know what? after all that pissing about. That was a fatal mistake - fatal.

It was the PSU.

Sadly i now have another huge problem on my hands with that appears to have a billion answers and no fucking endgame in sight.

I'm tired, i just don't have the stomach for another round of troubleshooting, i don't have much money either, but the time i have is even more precious and important to me even than throwing yet more money at this piece of shit.

I can't afford the time anymore.

So far, taking everything into account a £750 total spend, has already been pushed to over £850, and i have wasted SIX MONTHS of gaming time, six months of of use of good hardware and at times if feel i have thrown away six months of my life.

It's now well 13 months since my old PC died, and i decided to buy a new one, and i really wanted to get back into gaming again, i was persuaded that Dell were shit, that any other system builder were expensive and uneccesary and embarked on building my own, six months in planning, and six months of carefully buying one component at a time.

Building your own is great when you have a trouble free build i'm sure, but when you have a total f****** disaster like mine then it becomes like Alien - In space no-one can hear you scream.

There's a gaming board on the 'net where my PC is the stuff of legend, it's at the stage where people say to me "I daren't open your thread anymore, because i'm frightened of what i might see, what misfortune will have befallen you this time etc"



I hear what you're saying man, but i have been through this shit already, it's heartbreaking and even when i finally got to the bottom of the problem, and actually got a working stable gaming system for a WHOLE THREE DAYS, the next disaster was waiting for me when i woke up.

I am at my wits end. I really am.

One day i'm going to take a f****** sledgehammer to it.

:wall::wall::
::fire::fire::
:@:@:@
:mad::mad::

[Malazan]

It removes any possible problematic hardware from the equation. If the mobo posts then start adding parts back one by one until the PC is rebuilt outside the case or it fails to post. Then you know exactly what the problem is.

why does it have to be outside the case?

[jonnyGURU]

why does it have to be outside the case?

To avoid and eliminate potential shorts of components against the Earth grounded chassis.

[Yodan]

You probably thought of this....but reset the bios by either taking battery out for a couple of minutes or by changing the bios jumper setting. Maybe it got corrupted.

[signmeuptoo]

Wow, dude! I myself am a hothead, but man, everyone experiences serious computer hassles from time to time. If you work yourself up like this your gonna get nowhere, and ease up on the language, sure, we're all guys here, but no need to curse up a storm. Take a breath.

First off:

Taking the motherboard and parts out of the case and checking to make sure there are NO STANDOFFS where the shouldn't be and causing ground to circuit shorts is a good idea.

Please describe to us the various computer problems, what types of symptoms you are having. Also, how is the electricity going into your home, I hope something isn't repeatedly damaging it...

What is the brand of motherboard, perhaps it is a crappy model or they keep sending back the same one to you? (Always record serial numbers so you can catch that!)

Folks want to help, but losing your head won't help guy. I understand how you feel, believe me, I was just there myself. I went through about 7 computer problems in a row and on my budget it was the last thing I needed. You can get through this, but we need to find out if there is something you might be doing even, and I don't mean to insult you by saying that, sometimes someone knows better than me for instance, so I always keep my ears clear...

I sure want to help like everyone here, but woa!

[Malazan]

No, it's not from time to time it's continual - from the outset.


How can standoffs be where they shouldn't be? they line up with the holes.

How are these standoffs causing shorts, where they haven't been causing shorts for six months?

What do you mean "How is the electricity going into my home?"

How the heck would i know? it comes in like everyone's does, what am i an electrician now? i have to be an electricity expert to play some fucking games on a PC?

It's not a crappy Mobo either, it's a P5NE-SLI. It's been RMA'D and tested it came back as ok, i have no reason to doubt that.

I don't have various computer problems i have a PC that won't work, that;s the problem, i hit the power button, fans spins, lights come on but nothing appears on the screen, no beep, and i can't get into BIOS either. Yesterday it was fine, it ran like a dream this morning it's dead. The PSU was bought to replace a a PSU that was sent for RMA and lost by the postal service, when my new PSU did work for the three days it was clear that although the RMA'D PSU never got tested that it WAS busted.



As for something repeatedly damaging my PSU and GPU i would not be surprised if my current ones are both FUBAR the way my last PSU and GPU were.

If it turns out that both my GPU and PSU are fried it's a pretty fair bet that the electricity supply is fucked up coming out the wall - i will try one more of each and then give up - it clearly won;t be meant to be.



I'm sorry if my tone annoys you but i've been answering stupid questions and repeating the same stories over and over and over again for SIX MONTHS.

Nothing ever changes i can't play a game on a machine i have spent £850 on.

The idea that it's power coming out the wall that is the culprit is one i've been pondering on for a while. But on't give me crap about standoffs not being where they should be when they have been in the same place they have been for six months.


The continual problem through the lifespan of this POS has been that the PC runs fine until i begin intensive gaming, when the GPU needs power then minutes my PC shuts off, it has done this since the day i built it.

Not until 3 days ago when i finally got to marry my 2nd GPU with my brand new PSU did thjis problem cease, i could actually play games without shutoffs.

Then this morning i switch on my PC thinking all my hard work and perseeverance hane finally paid off only to find everything is fucked again.

Soprry, about my cussing, but this PC is wrecking my life.

[signmeuptoo]

Woa, I guess I'll just have to take the abuse here.

Anyways, in a standard case there are threaded holes for different size/design motherboards, if every single metal standoff isn't mated to a hole in the motherboard you will get a short. It happens to guys all the time.

As far as your house current, there are meters and an electrician or the power company can hook up that record for 24 hours what your house current is like. You know, something else in the home could be injecting a signal into the house current even, though it is unlikely.

A bad step down transformer from your power company can sure make life hell. How often do you change out light bulbs? How many other things have failed lately?

Dude, if you want help from people you can't get irritable with them, they'll blow you off if you are like that. Look, I am bipolar and I have had to work hard to learn how to control myself. It doesn't matter how bad things get, handling life with grace is the key to greatness. I am not one to talk, but I aspire to that.

You might even have a loose wire or broken outlet where you are plugged into the wall causing intermittant juice flow and that can be damaging.

The reality is if you want to build you own computer you actually DO need to develop an aptitude with things electrical if you want to live happy...

[Malazan]

Woa, I guess I'll just have to take the abuse here.

Anyways, in a standard case there are threaded holes for different size/design motherboards, if every single metal standoff isn't mated to a hole in the motherboard you will get a short. It happens to guys all the time.

As far as your house current, there are meters and an electrician or the power company can hook up that record for 24 hours what your house current is like. You know, something else in the home could be injecting a signal into the house current even, though it is unlikely.

A bad step down transformer from your power company can sure make life hell. How often do you change out light bulbs? How many other things have failed lately?

Dude, if you want help from people you can't get irritable with them, they'll blow you off if you are like that. Look, I am bipolar and I have had to work hard to learn how to control myself. It doesn't matter how bad things get, handling life with grace is the key to greatness. I am not one to talk, but I aspire to that.

You might even have a loose wire or broken outlet where you are plugged into the wall causing intermittant juice flow and that can be damaging.

The reality is if you want to build you own computer you actually DO need to develop an aptitude with things electrical if you want to live happy...



I'm sorry.

To be honest if it becomes clear that it's a problem with the electricity supply i will just give up, in ide the case i can handle, i expect problems with PC's, but i'm not messing around trying fix the power - nah, it's not worth the hassle.

The risers are all matched up.

Nothing has failed lately, the bulbs go as often as anyone else's i guess.

The reality is that PC's can be incedibly problematic and infuriating, and i really ought not to have built my own, i should have had one built by a company to my specs, that way i would not be spending hours every single day trying to get a stable PC - nevermind depressing myself with constant thoughts about it, and also losing valuable time i need to employ elsewhere on what seems an ultimately fruitless exercise.

I have shown admirable patience, restraint, and i have sunk an incredible amount of time and effort, not too mention money into this project, however there has come a point where it's time to give up.

[Malazan]

Any significance to the fact that when i remove both stick of RAM there's still no beep?

Also i've noticed the keyboard light does not come on either.

[signmeuptoo]

During POST, it looks for RAM, RAM has to be there for a POST to continue past recognizing the CPU because RAM is next, then video card, then drives are polled and bootup occurs.

So you don't get any beep codes? Beep codes can help you track down issues.

Try doing this:

Without power connected to the motherboard, pull your motherboard battery and set the jumper for "reset CMOS" to the reset position. Leave it that way overnight. Don't power the system with the jumper in that position though, as it can cause damage.

The next day put jumper back and batter back.

See what happens.

If that doesn't help, call your motherboard manufacturer and tell them your misery. If they are any good they will send you a free replacement CMOS BIOS chip, I Both IWill and ASUS did it for free for me in the past for no charge except shipping.

Fashion a CMOS puller from a paper clip or better, buy the actual tool that is made to do it and gently pull out the BIOS chip trying to not let it get too cockeyed. When inserting the replacement it is VERY important to push it in level and even or the pins can get badly distorted.

I think these steps may give you a good chance at success, I am trying the send some positive mojo your way. You have my compassion, hang in there!

Don't blame yourself for building a system. Always view things in life as learning experiences. Remember, computers are like women: Just because they slap you in the face doesn't mean they are a lost cause and won't work for you in the end! ;)

Take care.

Oh, and one more thing:

Your computer case on/off button could be bad. Check that and the reset, you can buy stand alone buttons from places such as frozencpu.com. I'd tell you to try to do it with a screw driver, but it is too risky if you ask me! I like the motherboards like mine that have actual switches ON THEM, mine even has POST sequence status lights.

[Per Hansson]

It is very easy to install too many standoffs on a standard case

The cases backplate are made for multiple mainboard designs
I have seen it many times, and so have the people here; that when someone swapps a mobo out or builds a new system they put the standoff on a place where one should not be (Thus making it short out to the underside of the mainboard)

This is why you are asked to test the system outside of the case. It removes one additional possible cause of problem

But with your attitude you will find that very few people will help you
You have found a very knowledgable forum, with some great people in it

But remember that we all do this for free, so being sneezed at is no way to make us help you help yourself

And about the power issue, you can have your power company check out your power conditions. It has tolerances it must stay within and if it isn't then they must fix it...
Is your computer connected to a properly grounded (known good) outlet?
Do you use any power conditioners or the likes? If not then buy an APC surge supressor; it will both lit up a green light if grounding is ok and keep the computer saf(er) from bad incoming power

If the power company comes to the conslusion that your line is dirty but still don't wanna fix it you can either make them do it (if it works like in Sweden they must fix it by law)
But you can also always get a Dual Conversion UPS, that way you can feed it any crappy power at all, including of sync frequency and out will come a pefect sine wave output good for sensitive devices like computers

Also, for troubleshooting a Port80H POST device is a great thing to have, it lists post codes, from 00>FF and with it comes a manual, if the post device does not end up at FF it will show a number, like 26. Then you look in it's manual and see that 26=Graphics card init. So you get a much better grip on where to start trouble shooting...

[madmat]

Bro, you've spent six months fighting this pig and I honestly feel for you. The thing is we haven't been anywhere near where you've been trying to figure the problem out for the last 5 months and 30 days so we have no clue as to what you've gone through, done and have left undone. We don't know squat about your PC aside from the time you've spent fighting it and the money you've spent on it along with the PSU you bought and recently you mentioned the mobo you're using. We're innocent bystanders at the trainwreck of your PC and we're attempting to help you pick up the pieces but we don't know what you've tried and haven't unless you outline everything in great detail.

If need be do a copy/paste from the other forum where you're been trouble shooting these issues so we know more and have insight into what might have failed via cascade failure. I have to ask, what kind of case are you using? While I was reading this I remembered a case of mine that would stick with the reset button depressed causing my PC to not post. I didn't figure out the problem until I had pulled everything from the case and did like was suggested to you which was starting with the CPU/GPU/mobo/ram and PSU I posted my rig, I then added a HDD and booted into windows, I then added the rest of my ram and ran it in windows. Eventually I had my PC rebuilt outside the case and it was fine so I bundled all back into the case only to encounter the same issue. That was when I started physically examining the case to see if it was shorting the switches and discovered the stuck reset switch.

I felt like an idiot but it all came out in the wash, so to speak, and I had my PC going in a few hours time.

[Malazan]

Bro, you've spent six months fighting this pig and I honestly feel for you. The thing is we haven't been anywhere near where you've been trying to figure the problem out for the last 5 months and 30 days so we have no clue as to what you've gone through, done and have left undone. We don't know squat about your PC aside from the time you've spent fighting it and the money you've spent on it along with the PSU you bought and recently you mentioned the mobo you're using. We're innocent bystanders at the trainwreck of your PC and we're attempting to help you pick up the pieces but we don't know what you've tried and haven't unless you outline everything in great detail.

If need be do a copy/paste from the other forum where you're been trouble shooting these issues so we know more and have insight into what might have failed via cascade failure. I have to ask, what kind of case are you using? While I was reading this I remembered a case of mine that would stick with the reset button depressed causing my PC to not post. I didn't figure out the problem until I had pulled everything from the case and did like was suggested to you which was starting with the CPU/GPU/mobo/ram and PSU I posted my rig, I then added a HDD and booted into windows, I then added the rest of my ram and ran it in windows. Eventually I had my PC rebuilt outside the case and it was fine so I bundled all back into the case only to encounter the same issue. That was when I started physically examining the case to see if it was shorting the switches and discovered the stuck reset switch.

I felt like an idiot but it all came out in the wash, so to speak, and I had my PC going in a few hours time.





Do i need to completely rebuild it outside the case?

If so i better start now.


The thing is i can never go into enough detail to satisfy every question, i can't it's impossible. Also all machines and not the same trhew same things don't apply.

T'm trying but there's a limit to what i can do.

[Per Hansson]

Malazan; yes please
Do as advised and build it outside the case. Of course on something non conductive and antistatic safe. A wooden bench works good...
(Don't put it ontop of an antistatic bag, the outsides of such bags actually are statically charged, only the insides are safe...)

[Malazan]

Malazan; yes please
Do as advised and build it outside the case. Of course on something non conductive and antistatic safe. A wooden bench works good...
(Don't put it ontop of an antistatic bag, the outsides of such bags actually are statically charged, only the insides are safe...)


How about a table with a laminated type surface, you know the kinda stuff that covers tables made of MDF type boards.

[signmeuptoo]

I didn't know about that device, where can one be bought (in the USA), and are they expensive? How do they connect?

[signmeuptoo]

How about a table with a laminated type surface, you know the kinda stuff that covers tables made of MDF type boards.

Any non conductive surface is good, I like dry wood or cardboard, such as the motherboard box top.

I wouldn't use the foam that the motherboard came with though as I am unsure of its conductive qualities as it is an anti static foam. Also don't use the bag it came in for the same reason.

[madmat]

The foam that mobo's come with isn't conductive. I've used it as an a/s barrier dozens of times with a loaded mobo on it for bench testing and never had a single issue.

[Per Hansson]

I bought my Port80H device from these guys: http://www.elstonsystems.com/products.html

Actually, I bought it from the china distributor on eBay for like 3$ or something
it did not work properly so I contacted them; they sent me 3 different Port80H cards that they make free of charge from their US office, no questions asked

Best support I've ever had the pleasure to work with (and all 3 cards they sent worked just fine, and still do. and I use them almost daily)

[Malazan]

No joy, building outside the case didn't work though now i guess we know it's not a short right?

[madmat]

Yep. Got another PSU to try? Just to see if maybe you were unlucky enough to get a bad one... it does happen.

[Malazan]

Yep. Got another PSU to try? Just to see if maybe you were unlucky enough to get a bad one... it does happen.

No, not until tommorow, i'm going to try a freinds PSU in my machine, and also try his ATI 9800 GPU in mine too.


That will eliminate both GPU and PSU right?


Assuming they are fine, then what?

It really looks like the mobo doesn't it?

[signmeuptoo]

You are connecting the CPU power header up, right? I don't want to insult your intelligence, but just to be safe I thought I'd ask.

Good to know on the foam, Matt. The reason I was unsure is that some of that stuff is charcoal black with makes me wonder what it is made of. In my semi con work we used plastic pink boxes and AS Foam, but I don't know about its qualities...

Have you replaced the CPU BTW? I am wondering if there is any hardware you have not changed out, though it sounds like not...

[Malazan]

You are connecting the CPU power header up, right? I don't want to insult your intelligence, but just to be safe I thought I'd ask.

Good to know on the foam, Matt. The reason I was unsure is that some of that stuff is charcoal black with makes me wonder what it is made of. In my semi con work we used plastic pink boxes and AS Foam, but I don't know about its qualities...

Have you replaced the CPU BTW? I am wondering if there is any hardware you have not changed out, though it sounds like not...


Do you mean the power connector, if so yes.

No i havent changed out the CPU as i have nothing to change it with.

[Malazan]

I'm stuffed, it seems likely that it's GPU, CPU, PSU or Mobo.


I can test GPU, by placing a friends card in my system, i can test PSU by putting his PSU in my system - i would not put my PSU in his case it blows his rig.

But how would a test CPU? there's no way his 5 year old DELL mobo will handle a CORE2.

[Per Hansson]

Well, as I said above a Port80H test device is a really good thing to have...

As for your options; you could always take the CPU to a store and ask them to test it for you... But they usually charge a bit for it (unless you are a regular customer of them)

[C'DaleRider]

Malazan, I feel for you. Went through the same crap you're going through a couple of months ago......and six months ago on top of that.

The earlier time was just after I upgraded my power supply. I thought the psu was bad...or worse. Turned out one of the 8-pin ATX connectors on the psu cable wasn't seated all the way in its connector block and wasn't making contact with the motherboard's connector. Spent almost a week getting that diagnosed and straightened out. Pulled much of my slowly thinning hair out over that.

More recently, I had a fully stable and functioning computer suddenly refuse to post on boot.....out of the blue.

Beeped it couldn't find my RAM. Thought it was the mb in that when I put each individual stick that was installed on the mb in the single stick slot, the pc booted up, but when I installed both sticks in dual channel configuration, no boot. It'd even boot when putting both sticks in single channel configuration.

RMA'd the motherboard. Get a new one back. Plug in my components....no boot. Cannot find RAM. No way could it be another bad motherboard again!!!

One stick of RAM in single channel config.....pc boots up. Plug in both sticks in dual channel config....no boot.

Turns out that one stick of my RAM was slowly going bad.....it'd sometimes work, sometimes not. Confirmed this by switching my RAM for the RAM in my wife's computer. All slots on my mb worked with hers......and her pc wouldn't boot with my RAM.

So, RMA time for my RAM. Sucks, doesn't it.

But, it's sort of the nature of the beast.

My experience: (And it may be way off-base, but just what I've noticed over a decade of messing inside these beasts)

Bad RAM will keep it from posting, a bad optical drive won't......a bad optical drive just won't be recognized in the BIOS.

A bad psu will keep a pc from posting.

A bad cpu will keep it from posting, but I've had cpus laying around on a bookcase for six months naked...no antistatic packaging, nothing....and it still booted a computer when I reinstalled it months later.

A bad video card will keep a pc from posting........a bad hard drive will not keep the pc from posting to BIOS, the pc will just not recognize the hard drive and constantly ask where its OS drive is.

In short......cpu, RAM, psu, motherboard, and video card will all keep a pc from posting to BIOS.....and I'd tend to work from RAM as first culprit, to motherboard, video card, and lastly psu and cpu as culprits....at least from what I've experienced and heard from many others.

A bad optical or hard drive won't keep a pc from posting to BIOS......


Good luck and I know it's exasperating....to say the least.

[Malazan]

Ok, lets assume, that there is something wrong with the electricity supply in my house, causing damage to components such as PSU and GPU, and also assuming i'm not in a position to do anything about the electricity supply itself.

Ok, assuming all that, is there anything i can buy that will come between the electricity coming out the wall and into my PC that will "clean up" or regulate the electricy my PC is recieving?

In short is there anything on the market that will solve such a problem if it does indeed exist?

I;m in the UK by the way.

I know that's a bit of a crap explanation but i'#m trying my best here. I'm just starting to wonder whether the real problem is not inside my PC case but the problem is what is coming out the socket.

Thanks.

Also might a PSU tester come in handy? and i assume they work by testing your PSU away from the rest of your system?

Thnaks, again.

[Malazan]

Malazan, I feel for you. Went through the same crap you're going through a couple of months ago......and six months ago on top of that.

The earlier time was just after I upgraded my power supply. I thought the psu was bad...or worse. Turned out one of the 8-pin ATX connectors on the psu cable wasn't seated all the way in its connector block and wasn't making contact with the motherboard's connector. Spent almost a week getting that diagnosed and straightened out. Pulled much of my slowly thinning hair out over that.

More recently, I had a fully stable and functioning computer suddenly refuse to post on boot.....out of the blue.

Beeped it couldn't find my RAM. Thought it was the mb in that when I put each individual stick that was installed on the mb in the single stick slot, the pc booted up, but when I installed both sticks in dual channel configuration, no boot. It'd even boot when putting both sticks in single channel configuration.

RMA'd the motherboard. Get a new one back. Plug in my components....no boot. Cannot find RAM. No way could it be another bad motherboard again!!!

One stick of RAM in single channel config.....pc boots up. Plug in both sticks in dual channel config....no boot.

Turns out that one stick of my RAM was slowly going bad.....it'd sometimes work, sometimes not. Confirmed this by switching my RAM for the RAM in my wife's computer. All slots on my mb worked with hers......and her pc wouldn't boot with my RAM.

So, RMA time for my RAM. Sucks, doesn't it.

But, it's sort of the nature of the beast.

My experience: (And it may be way off-base, but just what I've noticed over a decade of messing inside these beasts)

Bad RAM will keep it from posting, a bad optical drive won't......a bad optical drive just won't be recognized in the BIOS.

A bad psu will keep a pc from posting.

A bad cpu will keep it from posting, but I've had cpus laying around on a bookcase for six months naked...no antistatic packaging, nothing....and it still booted a computer when I reinstalled it months later.

A bad video card will keep a pc from posting........a bad hard drive will not keep the pc from posting to BIOS, the pc will just not recognize the hard drive and constantly ask where its OS drive is.

In short......cpu, RAM, psu, motherboard, and video card will all keep a pc from posting to BIOS.....and I'd tend to work from RAM as first culprit, to motherboard, video card, and lastly psu and cpu as culprits....at least from what I've experienced and heard from many others.

A bad optical or hard drive won't keep a pc from posting to BIOS......


Good luck and I know it's exasperating....to say the least.



Thanks for that. A very interesting post.

I'm pretty much sure it's failing hardware, well as sure as i can be, i've already had a failed PSU and GPU. it's very likely that the PSU also wrecked the GPU as well i reckon.

My P5N-SLI yellow RAM slots do not work at with my GSKILL 6400 BQ RAM at all, the caused the mouse to stick (that's called "hanging apparently) and i got constant BSODS.

I switched over to the black slots and those probs disapeared, i later RMA'D my board to be informed that the yellow slots worlked fine with different RAM.

Of course, while all this going on, i was still getting shutoffs, which i first diagnosed as an overheating GPU (correcectly as it turns out as i was refunded)_ i then tried my new 8800GTS 320MB, only to get shutoffs again......

Anyway, i ended up with a PNP&P 610W Silencer, my system was great for 3 days....then Saturday morning......my post.


Anotherproblem i have is no-one near me has a comparable system so i could spend an hour swapping parts in and out and seeing what was what, so i could RMA with any clarity.


Oh well i'll post my specs, though i can't see how it will shed any light on the situation.....

CORE2DUO E4300 no oc
P5NE-SLI
GSKILL 2 GIG RAM BQ 6400
VISTA 32 PREMIUM
8800GTS 320MB
PCP&C 610W Silencer

[C'DaleRider]

When you try to boot, are you getting any beeps, and if so, what sort (one long, a long with two short, etc.)?

Have you tried booting with just one stick of RAM installed instead of both sticks?

As you are using an nVidia chipset, all I can say is good luck. The various forums I frequent are rife with people having problems with nVidia chipset motherboards and dumping them.....lots more than comparable Intel chipset motherboards. (The previous sentence does exclude the current X38 motherboard release, as it seems to have been rushed out the door and is one I'd honestly never recommend at present until the BIOS revisions get straightened out.)

I may be old fashioned and just stupid, but I'm so old school I still believe the old wive's tale of Intel chipsets for Intel cpus....nVidia chipsets for AMD cpus.

I'd really begin to suspect your RAM as the memory you have is NOT on Asus' qualified vendor list for compatible RAM for this motherboard. Not saying your RAM won't work with the board, just that the RAM hasn't been "qualified" as being completely compatible with it. May be where your problem lies.

http://www.asus.com/999/download/products/1474/1474_10.pdf

[Malazan]

When you try to boot, are you getting any beeps, and if so, what sort (one long, a long with two short, etc.)?

Have you tried booting with just one stick of RAM installed instead of both sticks?

As you are using an nVidia chipset, all I can say is good luck. The various forums I frequent are rife with people having problems with nVidia chipset motherboards and dumping them.....lots more than comparable Intel chipset motherboards. (The previous sentence does exclude the current X38 motherboard release, as it seems to have been rushed out the door and is one I'd honestly never recommend at present until the BIOS revisions get straightened out.)

I may be old fashioned and just stupid, but I'm so old school I still believe the old wive's tale of Intel chipsets for Intel cpus....nVidia chipsets for AMD cpus.

I'd really begin to suspect your RAM as the memory you have is NOT on Asus' qualified vendor list for compatible RAM for this motherboard. Not saying your RAM won't work with the board, just that the RAM hasn't been "qualified" as being completely compatible with it. May be where your problem lies.

http://www.asus.com/999/download/products/1474/1474_10.pdf




Yeah i've tried with one stick, no joy.

No, no beeps, even when i remove RAM. I do get a high pitched squeal when i remove the power connector from the GPU.

You're right it isn't on the approved list, but then again hardly anything is, there must be thousands of users (surf the boards and check specs) using any number of different makes and models of RAM with this board with no probs.

That doesn't rule out RAM being the problem of course.

I wouldn't buy a new board again, i'd want something mature, even if the specs were lower, anything for stability.

I'll try Intel next time i think. Though it gaurantees nothing does it? This PC gaming lark is like trying to find a needle in a mountain of needles, god knows how anyone ever gets a reliable system.

[Per Hansson]

Ok, lets assume, that there is something wrong with the electricity supply in my house, causing damage to components such as PSU and GPU, and also assuming i'm not in a position to do anything about the electricity supply itself.

Ok, assuming all that, is there anything i can buy that will come between the electricity coming out the wall and into my PC that will "clean up" or regulate the electricy my PC is recieving?

In short is there anything on the market that will solve such a problem if it does indeed exist?

I;m in the UK by the way.

I know that's a bit of a crap explanation but i'#m trying my best here. I'm just starting to wonder whether the real problem is not inside my PC case but the problem is what is coming out the socket.

Thanks.

Also might a PSU tester come in handy? and i assume they work by testing your PSU away from the rest of your system?

Thnaks, again.
As I said before: "But you can also always get a Dual Conversion UPS, that way you can feed it any crappy power at all, including of sync frequency and out will come a pefect sine wave output good for sensitive devices like computers"

APC's line of "Smart-UPS RT" are dual conversion

[C'DaleRider]

Yeah i've tried with one stick, no joy.

No, no beeps, even when i remove RAM. I do get a high pitched squeal when i remove the power connector from the GPU.

You're right it isn't on the approved list, but then again hardly anything is, there must be thousands of users (surf the boards and check specs) using any number of different makes and models of RAM with this board with no probs.

That doesn't rule out RAM being the problem of course.

I wouldn't buy a new board again, i'd want something mature, even if the specs were lower, anything for stability.

I'll try Intel next time i think. Though it gaurantees nothing does it? This PC gaming lark is like trying to find a needle in a mountain of needles, god knows how anyone ever gets a reliable system.


Darn...no noise when no RAM in it? Sheesh...makes diagnosis a bit hard.

I understand the stability over speed you want to get. That's why I still hang on to my Intel 975BX2 motherboard...the BadAxe 2. Not the fastest thing around, but stable as the proverbial rock. Runs anything I throw on it.....and Intel is known for building, not the most glamorous or fastest boards out there, but instead the most stable, forgiving, and some of the longest lasting boards.

With your C2D....if you have no aspirations of going Penryn any time soon....I'd look for a discounted BX2. With the new chipset releases out there, the BX2 is just going to get cheaper and cheaper.....and it isn't that much slower than the P35 or X38 chipsets even now.

[Malazan]

As I said before: "But you can also always get a Dual Conversion UPS, that way you can feed it any crappy power at all, including of sync frequency and out will come a pefect sine wave output good for sensitive devices like computers"

APC's line of "Smart-UPS RT" are dual conversion


They cost £1000's!!!!

:)

[Malazan]

So i tested my PSU and it's that's ok.

My friend now doesn't want to swap GPU's out so it looks like a case of RMA'ing MOBO and GPU and seeing what happens, i have no way of testing my CPU, though i guess if the GPU and Mobo come back ok - i can get another CPU.

What a nightmare.

Anyone have any other ideas?

[Chilly]

Oh god. I feel for you man.

Fans spin up, but no post, no beeps?

Ram removed. Same thing?

Mobo's dead, nice and simple, what caused it? Can't say, maybe the PSU, maybe constant use with the craoppy PSU, maybe your bad power from the wall?

Maybe both your mobo and PSU are shot, I doubt it, I put money on just the mobo, but I can gaurentte with about 80-90% certency, if the mobo does not beep AT ALL even with no ram and etc, one of 2 things are shot, the BIOS, opr the physical mobo itself.

[EDIT] Also, just as an fyi a mobo will even beep if theres no CPU installed ;)

[Malazan]

Oh god. I feel for you man.

Fans spin up, but no post, no beeps?

Ram removed. Same thing?

Mobo's dead, nice and simple, what caused it? Can't say, maybe the PSU, maybe constant use with the craoppy PSU, maybe your bad power from the wall?

Maybe both your mobo and PSU are shot, I doubt it, I put money on just the mobo, but I can gaurentte with about 80-90% certency, if the mobo does not beep AT ALL even with no ram and etc, one of 2 things are shot, the BIOS, opr the physical mobo itself.

[EDIT] Also, just as an fyi a mobo will even beep if theres no CPU installed ;)



Oh well the mobo going back tommorow and so is the GPU.

I will try and get a working system one more time, if i get blown components again, then it's time to give up i think - stick to surfing, and and undemanding games/media center.

[signmeuptoo]

Well, if you purchase a new motherboard, and are using an Intel Core 2, then consider a 965 chipset motherboard, it is a well established chipset.

I would look at the Intel, ASUS, ABIT, DFI, & Foxconn, that that order, stay away from ECS. Here:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010200280+107171850&Configurator=&Subcategory=280&description=&Ntk=&srchInDesc=

[cypherpunks]

Ok, lets assume, that there is something wrong with the electricity supply in my house, causing damage to components such as PSU and GPU, and also assuming i'm not in a position to do anything about the electricity supply itself.

Ok, assuming all that, is there anything i can buy that will come between the electricity coming out the wall and into my PC that will "clean up" or regulate the electricy my PC is recieving?

Here's a nice rude hack that's worked for me:

I was having a problem with a crappy power line that would glitch the computer every time the monitor degaussed. It would work fine at other times, but power cycling the monitor would reboot the computer.

So I went to a surplus store and got (for $5) a beer-can sized 450V aluminum electrolytic capacitor. A big honker. (You can use a slightly lower voltage rating if you measure what your PSU operates at. 340V is common for a non-PFC power supply, and you can operate aluminum electrolytics right up to their rating.)

Then I ran some 600V insulated wire through the PSU vents and soldered it to the primary side filter capacitor. (Be aware that those caps can hold significant charge for many minutes after disconnecting the mains.) And hooked that up to the beer can's screw terminals. (Make DAMN sure you get the polarity right, or you'll have a hand grenade inside your case.)

A few cable ties to hold the thing in place and... no more problems. I just increased my computer's hold-up ability. (And, incidentally made the power factor even worse.)

The idea here is that it's a hell of a lot simpler to filter DC than AC, and the first thinga PSU does is convert the AC to DC, so add the filtering after that.

Bringing these kinds of voltages outside the PSU case is not for the careless, but it works fine. Just make sure you insulate the screw terminal connections well and protect the insulation from chafing. And, as I mentioned, be absolutely 100% POSITIVE that you have the polarity right. An electrolytic that size hooked up backward is a bomb. (Youtube has videos (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=electrolytic+capacitor).)

[Malazan]

Here's a nice rude hack that's worked for me:

I was having a problem with a crappy power line that would glitch the computer every time the monitor degaussed. It would work fine at other times, but power cycling the monitor would reboot the computer.

So I went to a surplus store and got (for $5) a beer-can sized 450V aluminum electrolytic capacitor. A big honker. (You can use a slightly lower voltage rating if you measure what your PSU operates at. 340V is common for a non-PFC power supply, and you can operate aluminum electrolytics right up to their rating.)

Then I ran some 600V insulated wire through the PSU vents and soldered it to the primary side filter capacitor. (Be aware that those caps can hold significant charge for many minutes after disconnecting the mains.) And hooked that up to the beer can's screw terminals. (Make DAMN sure you get the polarity right, or you'll have a hand grenade inside your case.)

A few cable ties to hold the thing in place and... no more problems. I just increased my computer's hold-up ability. (And, incidentally made the power factor even worse.)

The idea here is that it's a hell of a lot simpler to filter DC than AC, and the first thinga PSU does is convert the AC to DC, so add the filtering after that.

Bringing these kinds of voltages outside the PSU case is not for the careless, but it works fine. Just make sure you insulate the screw terminal connections well and protect the insulation from chafing. And, as I mentioned, be absolutely 100% POSITIVE that you have the polarity right. An electrolytic that size hooked up backward is a bomb. (Youtube has videos (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=electrolytic+capacitor).)



Thanks for the help, and taking the time out to suggest something, but there's no way on gods green earth i will be attempting that in my parents house!!!


:D

[cypherpunks]

Thanks for the help, and taking the time out to suggest something, but there's no way on gods green earth i will be attempting that in my parents house!!!

I'm sorry to have frightened you. The voltages involved are no higher than the peak voltage in a 240V mains system, so the assembled product is not significantly more dangerous than a standard power lead. Just don't be sticking pins into it!

[Malazan]

I'm sorry to have frightened you. The voltages involved are no higher than the peak voltage in a 240V mains system, so the assembled product is not significantly more dangerous than a standard power lead. Just don't be sticking pins into it!



No worries mate!

Update.

MOBO was dead, and they have agreed to swap it for a P5K,around the same price. So i should be back in business tommorow or Thursday.