To the author of the reviews on JG, the Corsair 620 in particular

[uOpt]

Hi :)

I didn't see a contact email address, so I hope that I can reach the author of said review here.

In the review you (the author) make a few comments on the 8-pin EPS12V and the 4-pin EPS12V, and the overall line seems to be that you prefer a shared 4+4 EPS12V instead of separate 4 and 8-pin lines. Comments on the end of the review indicate you didn't come across a machine needed both yet.

Here is why I strongly prefer separate 4-pin and 8-pin EPS12V instead of a shared 4+4:

The second half of the 4+4, the one you are not supposed to put into the mother board, actually fits the motherboard, just 90 degrees turned. If you do that then one 12V wire goes into the ground of the board, which is certainly not healthy.

Just try it, it is for real. That alone should rule out that nonsense.
.
Boards that are using both 4 and 8-pin EPS12V are actually not that rare. Most of the dual Opteron socket 940 boards need that. They were and are pretty popular. Among other things they were for a long while the only way to get two x16 PCIe slots in a SLI system.

If you leave you the additional 4-pin you force the user to feed a CPU (which is by far the worst power consumer in the box) through an adapter cable..
.
Even boards with 2x 8-pin EPS12V exist, mainly 4-socket 940 boards. I had to run mine with a 4-pin to 8-pin EPS12V adapter, which I don't enjoy since 4 cores hang on that adapter.

Even worse, since I switched to a OCZ GXS for that box I have to go through a 6-pin PCIe to 8-pin EPS12V adapter that I had to make myself.

The only normal PSU offering native dual 8-pin EPS12V is the PCP&C 1KW, but only the new version with joined 12V rail. But before they you could have them make you a custom one.



Overall, I think it is not a coincidence that the higher quality PSUs in the 700W class like the Seasonic and the PCP&C have separate 4 and 8-pin EPS12V, while the cheaper class like the OCZ GXS has the 4+4.

Disclaimer: I really like the GXS and Supermicro has told me their power management doesn't care about the ripple. But I really dislike some aspects of the GXS that I think are unprofessional.

So, I think the reviews should treat the issue different. In my opinion, a 4+4 equipped PSU cannot count as a high-end PSU no matter the circumstances.

[jonnyGURU]

You shouldn't have to email me with this kind of thing. The forums are perfect for these kinds of discussions. Now I can make it more clear why don't necessarily agree with your points (which is Ok because we're all entitled to our opinions.)

Point 1: If someone is even thinking of plugging the second 4-pins into a 4-pin receptacle on the motherboard by turning it 90 degrees (which would mean the lock clip wouldn't line up) then I would be persuaded to take that person's screwdriver away from them and beat them with it.

Point 2: Boards with both 4 and 8-pin aren't rare, no. But for the most part, like with the dual Socket 940 you use as an example, these boards are a different customer base than a customer base that is buying a modular PSU. A modular PSU's target audience is someone that is quite concerned with internal aesthetics. Perhaps someone with a window case. I'm not saying someone with a dual Opteron wouldn't want to show off the insides of their case, but there are other options.

Point 3: More than just the PCP&C have dual 8-pins, but were not talking about a PSU with dual 8-pins. We're talking about the Corsair. And that's my whole point. There are CHOICES. Why would the Corsair HX620W have to be "everyone's choice." I like it. I don't use one myself, though. ;) I feel the modular "FlexForce" cables have a target audience that is now forced to "hide away" either a 4-pin or 8-pin cable in most cases.

So now we reach the WWJD part of my post. :D

If I were to fix cables on a modular PSU, I would fix an 8-pin that splits into two 4's, but I would also offer a MODULAR CONNECTION for the second 8-pin. This way, you're accomodating those who need both 4 and 8-pin connectors and two 8-pin connectors and you're also not putting the burdon of hiding an extra cable away for those who may only need one 4-pin or one 8-pin.

What about the guy who was trying to plug the extra four pins into the board? He's shivering in the corner suffering from the traumas of a thorough screwdriver beating.

I would also fix a PCI-e cable. You know that someone that's buying a high end power supply probably has at least one 6800 GPU or up or an X1700 and up, so if there's a concern about there being enough real estate to accomodate my modular 8-pin connector, put it where one of those 6-pins used to be!

I do agree with your last paragraph. A PSU with a 4+4 may not necessarily be considered a high-end PSU no matter what the circumstances, but (with all due respect to Corsair) I do not consider Seasonic built power supplies the pinnacle of performance and quality.

[Spectre]

I know this isn't directed at me....but I had to ask this:

# Even boards with 2x 8-pin EPS12V exist, mainly 4-socket 940 boards. I had to run mine with a 4-pin to 8-pin EPS12V adapter, which I don't enjoy since 4 cores hang on that adapter.Even worse, since I switched to a OCZ GXS for that box I have to go through a 6-pin PCIe to 8-pin EPS12V adapter that I had to make myself.

The only normal PSU offering native dual 8-pin EPS12V is the PCP&C 1KW, but only the new version with joined 12V rail. But before they you could have them make you a custom one.

If you don't like it, why not get a N+1 PSU from Zippy or Delta or whomever that is actually designed to support such a board rather than using a hacked together solution using a consumer level power supply?

[Slartibartfast]

If you don't like it, why not get a N+1 PSU from Zippy or Delta or whomever that is actually designed to support such a board rather than using a hacked together solution using a consumer level power supply?

For his board in particular that's probably a good solution, as it has on-board video, but for niche boards like the H8DCE you need all the connectors (24+8+4) but also enough juice for a good videocard, or even two.

The Tyan K8WE is also a dual 940, SLi capable board, but it doesn't need the 4 pin.

[Spectre]

For his board in particular that's probably a good solution, as it has on-board video, but for niche boards like the H8DCE you need all the connectors (24+8+4) but also enough juice for a good videocard, or even two.

The Tyan K8WE is also a dual 940, SLi capable board, but it doesn't need the 4 pin.

What board does he have? It sounded at least to me like he had a 4 socket socket 940 board that needed two 8 pin feeds.

[Slartibartfast]

What board does he have? It sounded at least to me like he had a 4 socket socket 940 board that needed two 8 pin feeds.

It's the SM H8QC8. Yes, it is quad socket 940 with 2x eight pin EPS connectors. I was saying that your question was a good one, but also that there is a market, albeit small, for full EPS psu's that can work in gaming machine.

Those dual 940 boards with SLi are also popular for rendering workstations, because you can slap in dual quadro's (or whatever) and run 4 cores.

[Spectre]

It's the SM H8QC8. Yes, it is quad socket 940 with 2x eight pin EPS connectors. I was saying that your question was a good one, but also that there is a market, albeit small, for full EPS psu's that can work in gaming machine.

I got ya.

[davidhammock200]

The Corsair is certainly not aimed at the multi-CPU server crowd, that is for Zippy's, PC P&C's, I-Stars & the rest.

[uOpt]

I know this isn't directed at me....but I had to ask this:

If you don't like it, why not get a N+1 PSU from Zippy or Delta or whomever that is actually designed to support such a board rather than using a hacked together solution using a consumer level power supply?

I actually used a Zippy with this, but I ended up with the OCZ anyway.

There's a big thread about my build over at 2cpu.com, but here is the basics of how I ended up with a "consumer" PSU for an 8-core Opteron system:



Supermicro states that you need a 1 KW PSU for this board. That is quite exaggerated as there is no way that 4 dual-core 940 CPUs take up 1000 watts, together with the board.

Besides, at the time where I buy the board, Supermicro themself offer no PSU with 1 KW (at least not for normal cases) and there is no other PSU with 1 KW and native 2x 8-pin EPS12V available.

So brave little uOpt wants to comply with Supermicro's requirement, out of line as it might seem, and orders a custom build PCP&C 1 KW with a second native 8-pin EPS12V (at the time the 1KW had one 4-pin and one 8-pin, the newest modification with joined 12V rail has 2x 8-pin).

They make a mistake with the first build, RMA, wait.

Correct build arrives. No post.

Call to PCP&C, we do cross-loading experiments, but nothing helps and we determine that the three-rail 1 KW turbo-cool won't do because of the rail split (quite honestly I think that this experience contributed to PCP&C now offering a joined rail version of the same PSU). Refund. Duh.

So, no post. What the heck. Hook up OCZ 520W Powerstream (single rail and well-known for 12V stability, but probably not QA). Works perfectly fine. Duh. So now what? Total power is not enough, so I need something else. Single-rail, right?



Now, the trick is that now that I have it running with the Powerstrean I can see that even with 8 mprimes (prime95) the box is taking 455 watts out of the A/C, assuming 80% efficiency that is 364 watts that I actually need a PSU for.

So Supermicro's requirements are even more ridiculous than I thought and now I'm willing to go lower than 1 KW.



Order Athena 850W, single-rail. A pre-sales question was answered "fussy" but what the heck, newegg allows me to RMA. Oh my, I didn't like that one at all. I first connected it to my overclocking gear and experimented a little, I wanted to give it a week to see whether it's safe. It is so light and feels so flimsy that I just don't trust it, no way I connect it to a $8000 box without extensive testing. Mind you, supposedly that is a "server-class", not a "consumer" PSU. Sufficient to say, I see very violent corruption when using this PSU and degration of overclocks. I even thought it had killed my magic CABNE along with my Geil One. And as I said, it just feels flimsy. I returned it without even let it comes within 2 meters of the H8QC8.

Order Zippy 700W. I have to use a 4pin to 8pin EPS12V adapter, but it works fine. But my oh my, the noise is worthy of an aircraft carrier flight deck.

So what now? People posted modifications of the Zippy to make less noise, but I know enough about electronics to know that reduced airflow does of course mean reduced power capacity, even with the same components, except now the PSU's protection doesn't know about the modifications.

At the same time I bash the new OCZ GXS over at XS for various things and an OCZ reps ask me why I don't like the 4 rails. It looked convincing enough that I bought one, I liked it a lot while testing on other boxes so I made a 6-pin PCIe to 8-pin EPS12V and what do you know, it runs the H8QC8 just fine and is even more efficient than the Zippy.

After I learn that the OCZ GXS has high ripple I email Supermicro support whether they think this poses a threat to the board but they make a clear statement that the power management on that board couldn't care less.



So that's how I ended up with a "consumer" level PSU.

The more professional PSUs failed miserably, and as I said the real deal (a "professional" PSU, sized for a normal case, 1 KW, two native 8-pin EPS12V) was simply not available when I made that build.

[Spectre]

The more professional PSUs failed miserably, and as I said the real deal (a "professional" PSU, sized for a normal case, 1 KW, two native 8-pin EPS12V) was simply not available when I made that build.

Not to harp on this but as you describe it you didn't use a product like I was suggesting (or really even one that meet supermicro's recommendation)...and when you came close with the Zippy...it did work. The thing is you are taking a board that is meant to go in to a system that noise isn't a concern for....so the solutions are going to be as such.

[WeStSiDePLaYa]

who wants to start a pool on how long till that GXS pops and takes his quad socket rig with it?:D

[Slartibartfast]

not too likely to happen.

[Skyguy]

I do not consider Seasonic built power supplies the pinnacle of performance and quality.

I'm NOT being sarcastic here, but which ones do you consider to be the pinnacle? Yes, I'm a noob, so I'm trying to learn, and will soon be in the market for a new PSU and am looking to get something GOOD....depending on the budget of course. The Seasonic/Corsair is one of my considerations, and I suspect it would handle most I can throw at it, so maybe my setup won't be as "extreme high end" as some, and maybe I don't need the "pinnacle" LOL.

I know you can't really answer the "what should I buy" question, but can you comment on what the "pinnacle of perfomance and quality" is in your opinion? Because then I can check how much that costs ;)

[burebista]

A shoot in the dark, but probably it's about Zippy, Etasis and Win-Tact, I guess.

[Skyguy]

Probably out of my price range.........and probably too noisy I would imagine. Maybe I'll stick with buying a standard "desktop gaming PSU".........

[uOpt]

I would be happy for suggestions about a PSU for that 8-core.

I still don't think that all of you reviewed the market situation, at least the one at the time. A 1000 watts with two native 8-pin EPS12V was not available in fall 2005 except as part of a $2000 19" case.

And what about that Athena piece? Does that count as a professional PSU for you?

I also have to remind people that the OCZ Powerstream 520W (not the 600) were the power supplies for a whole generation of overclockers, many of them abusing the system more than my civil Opteron. I have not heard of a system being taken out by one, and I have heard the same for most other PSU vendors. Now, that was at Topower times, but from what people tell me FSP is rather better than Topower. I don't see a reason why the OCZ should die and if it does that it will take the system with it. The Athena on the other hand...

[Slartibartfast]

I think that what Spectre was wondering was if you had looked into redundant units.

[Spectre]

I would be happy for suggestions about a PSU for that 8-core.

I still don't think that all of you reviewed the market situation, at least the one at the time. A 1000 watts with two native 8-pin EPS12V was not available in fall 2005 except as part of a $2000 19" case.

That may have been the case...though I don't think so but I can't prove that because I don't have anything cached from fall 2005....though I would just about gaurentee tha tthere were N+1 units available that would do it at the time...they maye be expensive but they were there if the board was.

The thing is most 4 socket boards do not go to DYI. They go to very specific OEM's who put them into....most of the time......very specific rackmount cases that do have the apropriate powersupply and cooling.

And what about that Athena piece? Does that count as a professional PSU for you?

Assuming it is the same Athena...ie AthenaPower that at least at one point used to use Topower......I wouldn't consider an Athena a PSU I would put in a 4 socket server or a two socket server.

I also have to remind people that the OCZ Powerstream 520W (not the 600) were the power supplies for a whole generation of overclockers, many of them abusing the system more than my civil Opteron. I have not heard of a system being taken out by one, and I have heard the same for most other PSU vendors. Now, that was at Topower times, but from what people tell me FSP is rather better than Topower. I don't see a reason why the OCZ should die and if it does that it will take the system with it. The Athena on the other hand...

Consumer/enthusaist Topower P6 powersupply is nowhere near the quality of a PSU I would expect to find in a 4 socket server. The quality of construction, quality of componeents, stability, temp management (I mean when you have a number of these things racked on top of each other even with good cooling you can get localized hotspots), and lack of redundancy would keep me from putting one in a system that is suppsoed to be bulletproof.

[uOpt]

That may have been the case...though I don't think so but I can't prove that because I don't have anything cached from fall 2005....though I would just about gaurentee tha tthere were N+1 units available that would do it at the time...they maye be expensive but they were there if the board was.



The only redundant PSUs I have seen were 700+350, but of cause they are actually delivering 700 Watts, not 1050.

I could have used one but to be honest, I don't see the improvement. Each modules is a tiny cramped thing with 350 Watts coming out. I don't think that this gives an overall reliability advantage at all. It is for environments where somebody is standing by with the next hotswap so that the total reliability is better.



The thing is most 4 socket boards do not go to DYI. They go to very specific OEM's who put them into....most of the time......very specific rackmount cases that do have the apropriate powersupply and cooling.


Absolutely.

But keep in mind this situation is different. I have one of these in a case that is much better ventilated than anything 19", it is in a room with not too many buddies of it's kind.

I don't see I need that kind of casing. And again, I don't see the overall reliability improving. Of course such a case improves the surviability in it's natural environment but in my environment it mainly adds vibrations for no actual benefit.

Of course I have no redundancy but I had made a decision that I don't need it.

Trying to go redundant with this build would add to the total amount of servicing. Lower downtime, increase service time. Not what I need for this.

%%

Still looking for more concreate suggestions.

It's not that I want to have a high-ripple PSU in that machine.

[Slartibartfast]

Well, I don't think you're going to do much better than a Silencer 750 or Seasonic M12 700w for your needs.

[jonnyGURU]

A shoot in the dark, but probably it's about Zippy, Etasis and Win-Tact, I guess.

Yeah... chit like dat. ;)

If Seasonic made server grade units, PCP&C wouldn't need WinTact. :D

[burebista]

Heh, I'm on the opposite side. :D
If those server grade PSU were silent like a Seasonic I'll gladly recommend them for home use. But anyway we don't have here Zippy and PC P&C, only Etasis units like Silverstone Zeus.
IMHO M-12 is a good joint between quality and silence.

[jonnyGURU]

Of the "server grade" I have to say that the Etasis/Silverstone Zeus units are by far the quietest. Certainly one of the more quiet 80MM fan cooled PSU's out there.

[uOpt]

Well, I don't think you're going to do much better than a Silencer 750 or Seasonic M12 700w for your needs.

Well, both are Seasonic and Seasonic really doesn't get that much more overall praise than Topower or FSP. Certainly not a "flawless" score.

I was also thinking the new Corsair that this thread is about, but again it is Seasonic.

I don't see what I gain from going from FSP to Seasonic. It's not enough of an upgrade, "safety" wise. I don't want to go PC&C Turbo-cool respectively Win Tact since it already failed. Before the rail joining, granted. But it also was pretty loud, so the combination of maybe it still won't work, $500 price tag and noise make it less than fully attractive, too.

Did Silverstone have anything new this year?

[Slartibartfast]

Did Silverstone have anything new this year?

See the post above yours ;)

Based on what I've read, I would still say Seasonic is a cut above Topower and FSP.

[clsA]

Yeah seems like the SILVERSTONE Zeus SST-ST75ZF would be your best option

[jonnyGURU]

I don't see what I gain from going from FSP to Seasonic. It's not enough of an upgrade, "safety" wise.

Seasonic uses better quality components, has less ripple, better voltage regulation and better efficiency.

Quite frankly, FSP rarely impresses me.

What does Etasis or Silverstone Zeus offer? Even better quality, even less ripple, even better voltage regulation... just a little lower efficiency and certainly not as quiet. But it's for a different customer.

Like Spectre said: People that buy dual Xeons or quad Opteron, i.e. "server grade", platforms are not typically noise conscious. If you need that much power but want quiet, might I suggest putting the PC in another room and operating it from a remote console via the network? ;)

[Slartibartfast]

Yeah seems like the SILVERSTONE Zeus SST-ST75ZF would be your best option

Needs single rail, though.

[clsA]

Needs single rail, though.

I see ..So this Zeus is not one of those with the "fake" Quad rails?
each are actually limited to 18A ?

[Spectre]

Of course I have no redundancy but I had made a decision that I don't need it.

Trying to go redundant with this build would add to the total amount of servicing. Lower downtime, increase service time. Not what I need for this.

Edit:
Just read your other post in the other thread and that response better addresses this.

%%

Still looking for more concreate suggestions.

It's not that I want to have a high-ripple PSU in that machine.

IMO like I said earlier....looking for a Delta or a Zippy that meets the Supermicro Recommendations is your best bet and then throw it in a closet.

[jonnyGURU]

I see ..So this Zeus is not one of those with the "fake" Quad rails?
each are actually limited to 18A ?

Actually, each rail is set to 20A or so... but yeah.. the Zeus has four separate rails.

To my knowledge, the only "fake" split rail PSU's out there (fake in that there's no OCP and no seperate circuit for each supposed rail) are these Seasonic built units.

[uOpt]

So we are talking this one? Zeus 850W:
http://www.xoxide.com/silverstone-zeus-st85zf-850w-psu.html
http://www.silverstonetek.com/products-85zf.htm

It doesn't even have separate 8 and 4-pin EPS12V. So I would be back to using a 6-pin PCIe to 8-pin EPS12V adapter to make use of Rail 4. Keep in mind none of the rails have a higher spec than with most 700W PSUs.

The specs seem to miss what temperature the output performance figures are valid it.

[jonnyGURU]

Hmm.... You're right. I thought it had separate 8 and 4-pins. Sorry.

You know what it was? All the damn PCI-e connectors across three different +12V rails! :D

[uOpt]

BTW, is it true that the 8-pin on the new PCP&C 1 KW are PCIe 8-pins, not 8-pin EPS12V?