Electrolytic Capacitors: Can they be replaced cost effectively?

[signmeuptoo]

I see that some motherboards are coming out with some other types of capacitors I know nothing about, but that electrolytics are replaced by these new types of capacitors. I read that humidity is the main enemy of these new caps.

What chance is there that in the near future we might see high quality supplies that replace electrolytic capacitors with a more robust type of cap? Is such a thing possible? Something that is more thermally immune or at least has higher operating temperatures? Is it cost effectively possible? What types of caps would be used, and how are they made?

OOPS, pardon my spelling error, I meant electrolytic, I can't type worth a hoot sometimes...

[Super Nade]

Hybrid lytics are already being used on motherboards (ASUS and Gigabyte). It improves reliability but no guarantees can be given when you look at ESR. It may be much worse than the traditional cans.

[Spectre]

Hybrid lytics are already being used on motherboards (ASUS and Gigabyte). It improves reliability but no guarantees can be given when you look at ESR. It may be much worse than the traditional cans.

Yeah I have a Striker Extreme that is full of them. Same with an ASUS 7950GT. Also Seasonic is coming out with a PSU using them sometime...soonish.

[VinDSL]

OOPS, pardon my spelling error, I meant electrolytic, I can't type worth a hoot sometimes...Install Google Toolbar in your browser!

It has a built-in web form spell checker... ;)

[mlhm5]

Of course if you are just replacing a bad cap, that's different.

Here you go

Cap Article (http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html)

How To (http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/05/18/fixing_your_motherboard/)

[ianm2]

well, on planet earth, everything is the enemy of everything, too hot, too cold, too humid, too wet, too dry, too windy

electrolytics have liquid in them, which don't like too much heat, and get hot under normal operating, also heat up from ambient, all manner of enemies for them.

Its not cost effective on a motherboard, the thing is, many electrolytics are pretty reliable, and there isn't definitive tests to say that the solid ones make for better stability.

obviously if you have the choice, buy a board with solid ones, the first to my knowledge that came out was the planetary priced dfi venus, but gigabyte now do the superceded 965ds3 at rock bottom prices, excuse the puns.

its not cost effective, as you would spend probably as much money on a new board, there are at least 40-50 ones need doing, factor in time, too, and one slip or one wrong and you could wreck the board.

also the working life of regular caps should be sufficient that by the time you need to change the board due to progress, 2-3 years, the caps should still be okish

I was running my asus a8nsli premium for years 24-7, and the caps show no outer signs of bulge, leaks, deterioration, anyone that criticises asus' build quality is talking bull imo, its one of the best there is, imho

like many things, there is much more than meets the eye, the emporer's new clothes may not be so good after all, beware of new sensationalist fads until they are proven, its an asteroid field out there, confusion is the name of the game, and poor john doe has to decipher it all based on intentionally limited info. caveat emptor, not to say the solids are bad, just dont' go changing everything for fear of wrecking, and then you'll have to shell out another earthload of cash

nostromo 15ceti alpha 9 signing off.....:D

[Bbq]

The capacitors that Asus uses are not bad. IIRC, they're made by a Japanese Manufacturer (Either UCC, Nichicon, Panasonic, or Rubycon, I think), and aren't a problem. Back in the day of the BP6, Abit used terrible capacitors, which were manufactured using an incorrect recipe for the electrolyte, which caused all the problems. Since then, they've pretty much been using rubycon for everything.

Asus' capacitor quality is != their build quality. Because capacitors aren't the only thing on a board. It seems to be more related to them rushing out products before anyone else, which ship with plenty of faults, which take a long time to fix. Like in the day of nForce 4 SLI, asus had 5 boards out before anyone had one.

[ianm2]

It seems to be more related to them rushing out products before anyone else, which ship with plenty of faults, which take a long time to fix.

tell me about that one, I think there should be a law to state that makers can only submit a product when its been fully fault found, why anything to do with computers seems exempt from this I don't know, but they expect us to do their work for them and pay them for it.

perhpas the onus on reviews ought to be changed, instead of something say being distinguished by its overclocking prowess, which is frequently the only thing used to discriminate between boards in a review, perhaps they ought to praise more anything which works with less problems first time around, indictive that the maker is getting it as right as it can be, instead of just a half baked cake?

same happened with 680i, asus had 3 b4 anyone had 1, oddly, they to me don't seem anymore prone to problems than the rest, in fact, the 680s to my knowledge weren't as troulbesome as the generic nvidia ones.

my asus has a mix actually, but most are indeed jap, chemicon I think, the board also is of very nice build quality, feels thick and solid, well laid out, too.

I hope we are answering the question, does the thread starter wish to replace all, or just the odd defective one, its not entirely clear.

just to reiterate, you can do more harm than good doing a scorched earth replacement, esp. if you either don't know what you are doing with a soldering iron, or haven't done it b4, its very easy to wreck it, I speak from experience here, having wrecked things in the past, even 6 months ago, something extremely fragile....one touch too much and the tracks lift.

soldering takes practise and feel for how long to hold the iron on for, not too mention the correct temp. of the iron, or even type of solder, and one cropped lead or blob of solder that's stuck to the bottom of the board could also short and wreck the board. no end of enemies here, too.

its not just components that can be overheated, tho they are designed for a little, you can ruin the tracks, lift them, and perhaps even conduct too much heat into the chips. fat lot of good replacing a decent cap would be, if you put the iron on and vapourised the electrolyte.

just be careful.

currently, these solid caps don't come in hi enough values of microfarads, or voltage afaik, remember on your mobo, there is only need for around 3ish volts, 5 volts, and 12 volts. in the psu, some need to be 400+ volts, as some are 'seeing' the mains

for them to be used all over, and when they do, esp. for the huge ones, they will be prohibitively expensive, so you won't see them totally replace for years to come, if ever. I don't know much about the manufacture/structure per se.

[fancyStufkiller]

Solid polymer capacitors are in certain areas a very good choice, especially endurance in a hot environment is one of their strength.
Beyond that, their ESR, their ESL (in plain words their filtering capability for high frequency ripple currents) and their ripple current rating are simply outstanding compared with electrolytic capacitors.
But their main problem beyond others is their high price tag and limited voltage range.

In the past, most manufacturers where buying the ultra cheapest and lowest quality capacitors they could even source.
And from my point of view, there is not much effort in this industry, to make better products.
Most common capacitor problems could have been easily avoided by choosing quality electrolytic capacitors from a reputable brand with stringent quality control and responsible engineering of the appliance.

Personally, i think that solid polymer capacitors are a good choice for applications, where heat and ripple current is unavoidable.
Especially voltage regulation on powerful video cards and may be for the voltage regulation module of high end CPU`s.

In a today's ATX PSU i think, there is not much benefit compared with high quality electrolytic capacitors.
But for the upcoming designs with DC to DC converters like the new Antec Signature Series this could change (but don`t expect an Antec Singnature PSu with solid polymer capacitors, it would be a long way to make this happen).
The same is probably true for the new PSU designs with higher switching frequency, which should enter the market in the next several years (at least i hope so :D).

The problem i see with the current solid polymer capacitor hype is again cheap manufacturer with questionable experience and quality control.
Even many very expensive high end products are today equipped with solid polymer capacitors from manufacturers known for their very inferior electrolytic capacitors. This can change with every revision or even without any.

To point it out, there is a very limited list of manufacturers with long therm experience in the field of solid polymer capacitors.
Namely there is Sanyo with it`s Oscon solid polymer capacitors. They are probably the safest bet, as they are on the market for several decades, especially in the higher end server market.

The other probably reliable or very reliable brands are Fujitsu, Chemicon and Samxon.
All the other brands are either new companies or simply renamed companies which former names are burned by known crappy electrolytic capacitors.

For the enthusiast with experience in soldering, the solid polymer capacitors open an (expensive) way to improve a given component beyond their original performance.
But it is always a gamble, as you have to lower the capacitance in most cases.
Nevertheless, there are some people at badcaps.net which have successfully done this.
Personally i already have bought a selection of polymer capacitors from Samxon & Sanyo to upgrade my trusty Asrock Dual Sata II, just to see what i can get out from this board (and the fact, that it is not entirely equipped with high end capacitors).