Power Supply Upgrade Needed?

[MMaster]

Hello all,

I've been having what I believe to be power supply issues. I've tried reading various FAQs and forums and I've decided to post my questions here as there is a lot of information out there about PSUs and I've not been able to make it sink in properly yet.


First, the current system specs -
p4 2.4c
gig of ram
6600gt agp video card (it has a standard molex power connector)
2 sata hard drives
1 optical drive, dvd-rw
pci soundcard (creative labs sounblaster x-gamer)
pci tv tuner card
2 lighted fans
1 cold cathode light kit
msi neo2 ls (865 based)
Apevia ATX-CW500WP4 link (http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16817148027)

next, the future system specs:
everything the same, except
GIGABYTE GA-965P-S3 motherboard
eVGA 512-P2-N635-AR Geforce 7950GT 512MB
1 gig (2x512 sticks) of ddr2 pc2-6400
intel E6400 cpu

My current system is not overclocked in any way and is completely "stock." No aftermarket coolers, etc.

Now, for the problem. I upgraded my power supply some time ago to the Apevia linked above. For a while I had popups telling me that the video card reduced performance due to power issues. I rewired everything in my case to put the video card on its own power cable strand with nothing else attached. This seemed to have done the trick. The popups went away, my 3dmark scores went up, life was good. Well, the other day, I decided to play some HL2, which I hadn't done in previous testing. In the middle of the game, it started stuttering, slowed down, etc. Exited out and there was the pop up again. :(

Looking at the specs of my current PSU, I see I've got 2x12volt rails, 16A and 18A each, which I'd have thought were enough to run my system. In fact, I specifically recall getting this PS because the specs on my video card called for 18A on the 12v rail. After reading this article (http://www.playtool.com/pages/psumultirail/multirails.html), which seems to say that the v2 rail is for the cpu and the v1 rail for all the other devices, it appears my power supply only has 16a "where it counts". However, I seem to remember reading (in either this forum or perhaps on HardOCP's forums) that the two rails are not really independant or rather that most PSUs don't have independant rails. Which is likely to be correct?

I did some testing... when I run 3dmark05 and the system hasn't given me the dreaded "slow-down popup", I get a 3160. If I run 3dmark05 after the popup, I get 2160. I've tried disabling my light kit, one of my lighted fans and the second hard drive but still got the pop-up and system slow downs.

I've come to the conclusion that a PSU upgrade will magically fix all my performance issues. Do you folks agree with that assessment? I don't want to run out and buy a PSU if it isn't needed but if the experts among you think that it's needed, that's what I will do.

Ah! one last question. I've never been able to overclock the system at all. Even slight changes result in a non-booting system. Is it at least possible that a better power supply would enable me to overclock the system a little?

In case you'd like to offer critiques, I'm thinking of going with this Corsair (http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16817139001) PSU.

Thanks for reading all of this. I hope I haven't noobed it up too much for a first post.

Thanks,
MMaster

[Oklahoma Wolf]

If the Apevia was an upgrade, I'd hate to see what it replaced ;)

Apevia is OEM Youngyear... mediocre units. I'd say go for the Corsair - if nothing else you're going to need it when that 7950 shows up.

[MMaster]

If the Apevia was an upgrade, I'd hate to see what it replaced ;)

Just for the record, I had an enlight oem PSU that came w/my case. I think it was 350w. Seemed to work well for me. At least, I didn't know it wasn't working well for me ;)

I remember the good ol' days when all you needed to know was more watts was better. I long for the days of blissful ignorance past.

[jonnyGURU]

Yeah... unfortunately, an Enlight 350W is > an Apevia/Aspire 500W. :(

[clsA]

Just for the record, I had an enlight oem PSU that came w/my case. I think it was 350w. Seemed to work well for me. At least, I didn't know it wasn't working well for me ;)

I remember the good ol' days when all you needed to know was more watts was better. I long for the days of blissful ignorance past.

lol yeah I bought my first Antec sonata because it come with a decent PSU
and was cheaper that just the PSU alone ...it lasted about 8 months as i recall

[MMaster]

Yeah... unfortunately, an Enlight 350W is > an Apevia/Aspire 500W. :(

where was ya when I needed ya? ;) j/k

well, way back when I got the "new" video card (the 6600), my performance was REALLY bad - like around 1200 or 1300 in 3dmark05. Somebody convinced me that a PSU upgrade would magically fix my performance issues. And it did, to a point. I went to 2100ish after the "upgrade." I had some corroborating evidence from the video card manufacturer who stipulated a minimum of a 400 watt PSU and 18a on the 12v rail, so I bought into the solution. Obviously, something is still wrong. I am fully prepared to buy into the notion that I bought a crap PSU, but you might imagine that I'm a little suspicious of the "upgrade your PSU and your problems magically go away" solution.

Unfortunately, I'll have to wait until christmas or perhaps after tax time to purchase a new PSU.

I do appreciate the help, though, folks.

thank you very much.
MMaster

[davidhammock200]

Apevia ATX-CW500WP4Aspire/Youngyear JUNK. :(

[jonnyGURU]

If you still have the Enlight.. how much mileage does it have on it? Is it still "clean?" No dust, tobacco stains, etc.?

[clsA]

I know davidhammock200 is going to kill me ..but can you afford a $40 PSU with a $40 rebate
..here's the link
http://shop1.outpost.com/product/4587977?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG
..i'm powering my system with one now and it's fine

[davidhammock200]

I know davidhammock200 is going to kill me ..but can you afford a $40 PSU with a $40 rebate
..here's the link
http://shop1.outpost.com/product/4587977?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG
..i'm powering my system with one now and it's fineHey free is FREE! :D

Good enough for a file/print server with intergrated grasphics.

[clsA]

lol see ^
I was holding my b's when I pressed post reply ...

his file server is less power hungry than mine so it should be fine for now

And dave just for the record ..we both promise to get Corsair PSU's as soon as the budget allows

[MMaster]

If you still have the Enlight.. how much mileage does it have on it? Is it still "clean?" No dust, tobacco stains, etc.?

Heh, I threw it out when I cleaned out my old computer "junk".


Good enough for a file/print server with intergrated grasphics.
his file server is less power hungry than mine so it should be fine for now

err....
we're talking about my main gaming rig.
*shame*

still, I might actually buy that PSU until I can get a "better" one.

[davidhammock200]

Heh, I threw it out when I cleaned out my old computer "junk".

err....
we're talking about my main gaming rig.
*shame*

still, I might actually buy that PSU until I can get a "better" one.Get 2 or 3 & run them in parallel. ;)

[clsA]

My Ultra V 500W DMM readings on the same rail as the 6800GS
12v = 12.17 idle 12.12 load
5v = 5.16 / 5.12
3.3v = ..never tested

of course at full load my System only pulls about 228W according to my APC UPS

[MMaster]

Ordered! Should have it next week, I'd imagine.

[clsA]

Ordered! Should have it next week, I'd imagine.

it may be their Friday ..they ship quick and from Ohio

I already got my rebate back ...lol

[MMaster]

it may be their Friday ..they ship quick and from Ohio

I already got my rebate back ...lol

You sir, are a prophet! It is estimated to be delivered TOMORROW! I ordered it LAST NIGHT. Unfortunately, I'll be outta town after noon tomorrow until noon monday. *sigh* gotta call and find out if they're gonna leave the package, redeliver or whatnot. Can't have that thing sitting on the front porch all weekend.

Hope my rebate gets processed as quickly as yours!

[MMaster]

Also, was poking around the 'net today, found this:
http://www.beyond3d.com/reviews/bfg/6600gtoc/index.php?p=5

Assuming the testing was done correctly, it looks like the ol' 6600GT power usage is pretty high! The reference NVidia board uses 102 watts idle (~8.5 amps?) and 193 under load (~16amps?). If that's the case, it's no wonder I'm having issues. Hopefully, the 28a on the 12v rail on the new Ultra PS mentioned above will be enough ;)

[burebista]

Assuming the testing was done correctly, it looks like the ol' 6600GT power usage is pretty high!
~4A (http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/power-noise_6.html) from 12V rail.

[MMaster]

ah, I see, the article I linked was talking about total system power, not just graphics card. ooooops!

[clsA]

You sir, are a prophet! It is estimated to be delivered TOMORROW! I ordered it LAST NIGHT. Unfortunately, I'll be outta town after noon tomorrow until noon monday. *sigh* gotta call and find out if they're gonna leave the package, redeliver or whatnot. Can't have that thing sitting on the front porch all weekend.

Hope my rebate gets processed as quickly as yours!

They leave the package unless you call and tell them otherwise

[MMaster]

I've got a neighbor who will pick up the package for me.

[Bbq]

Woah, only 4 amps? That's amazingly low.

what if it's clocked in a full 200/650mhz above stock? :eek: (700/1650)

[Hutch]

6600GT isn't power hungry at all, even with those 650/1600 clocks, it still doesn't pull close to 75W.

My 7600GT @ 715/1790 volt modded doesn't even pull more than 75W under full load... The PCI-E slot can't pull more than 75W of power and there's no external power connector... ;)

[burebista]

Woah, only 4 amps? That's amazingly low.
Heh, I spoke from a silence perspective, that's why I like nVidia cards: good performance, low consumption.
I measured my power consumption. Specs:

CPU: AM2 X2 3800+ box cooling
MB: ABIT KN9
GPU: BFG 7900GS OC
MEM: Corsair VS1GBKIT667D2
HDD: WD 800JB
Optical: LG H10N
PSU: Seasonic M-12 500
CASE: SLK3000B back fan on low

Frequency and voltages:
Idle/medium load CPU 800 MHz Vcore 0.900V, GPU 250/660
Full-load CPU 2GHz Vcore 1.125V, GPU 540/660

Power off-----------------------6W
Boot-------------------------124W peak
Idle---------------------------67W
Watch a movie----------------71W
SPi---------------------------93W peak
S&M CPU Test---------------108W peak
ATITool 3D View-------------118W peak
S&M + rthdribl---------------128W
S&M Power Supply test------135W peak
PFC between 0.93 and 0.98
Compaq 17" Monitor----------52W
APC Smart-UPS 420----------20W

Any other combination between Orthos, ATITool, rthdribl, games was under Power Supply test from S&M.
If I assume a 80% efficiency in full-load (80+ certified, 20% load) I see that I only need roughly 110W in full-load.
So, what the heck I'm doing with M-12 500? :crazy:

[clsA]

I did some similar test using my ups for reading the power of my system

My system running pretty much idle is at 158w and if I load everything I can think of (atitool - 3d tool - super-pi - disk defragmentor - prime 95 - firefox - file browser - icq ..you name it it's running) All i can pull is 228w tops

[MMaster]

hi guys! got the PSU, installed it (need to pretty the cables yet) and played HL2 for two straight hours. no slowdowns so far!

[MMaster]

well...

my popups are back. Downloaded and installed HL2: Episode 1. Popup occurred at the main menu the first time a I ran it. Reduced the gfx settings to be similar to HL2, still get the popup.

*sigh*

I'm starting to believe that it must not be a power supply issue. *sigh*
any ideas?