PSU Recommendations for High End Gaming PC's

[jonnyGURU]

This list hasn't been maintained in six months. It's time for this thread to die.

[Super Nade]

Thanks for the list Jonny. I'm going to be referring a lot of folks here. :)

[GalvanizedYankee]

jon,
I have 400 & 460W Zippys and with fan thermal control they are no louder than the old Fortrons with "noise killer" control on thier 80mm fans. It is true that Zippy units can be bought with NO fan thermal control.

[jonnyGURU]

jon,
I have 400 & 460W Zippys and with fan thermal control they are no louder than the old Fortrons with "noise killer" control on thier 80mm fans. It is true that Zippy units can be bought with NO fan thermal control.

True, but like the FSP's with "noise killer" they're not really high end gaming power supplies.

They get their own thread. ;)

[sanggarra]

Jonny,
Noob here and new to the forum. Awesome list, just like the super PSU reviews you do.

Any chance the recommendations could be sorted by price, i.e. best PSU between US$100 - US$125; US$126 - US$150;... etc....

I am looking for a good SLI-ready PSU under $176.

Again thanks and keep up the great work! :)

[jonnyGURU]

Instead of going further down tiers, I plan to create multiple lists for different uses and price.

This is just the lst for high end gaming PC's.

[sanggarra]

Sweet! I'll definitely be looking forward to that.

Dunno what I would have done (prolly :wall: ) if I have not found your site. :)

[davidhammock200]

Ultra a Tier 2? :rolleyes:

[Oklahoma Wolf]

Ultra a Tier 2? :rolleyes:

It's his list. Ultra is where it belongs IMO.

[davidhammock200]

It's his list. Ultra is where it belongs IMO.It is his list & some of today's Ultra's are pretty good PSU's, but ... :rant:

[Oklahoma Wolf]

You'll note he listed specific models. One of which (X3) will outperform just about every other PSU in its class I've ever seen.

[davidhammock200]

You'll note he listed specific models. One of which (X3) will outperform just about every other PSU in its class I've ever seen.I have never even heard of it. Getting old is a ... :rant:

Any good reviews?

EDIT: Ultra X-Pro/X-Finity/X3 600W APFC (not non-APFC) and 700W APFCMaybe I'm blind, but I can't find the X-Pro or X3 on the Ultra website. :confused: :wall:

[Gregory_WE]

Yeah they don't have it there, it looks like they're still in development from some posts on their forum.

[madmat]

The X-Pro is very close to release. It's a pretty stout little monster too. Personally I wouldn't put the Toughpowers as a tier three, I'd consider them tier two based off their voltage stability and features.

[jonnyGURU]

They're currently working on packaging and are just shipping review samples right now. But let's put it this way....

You have a dual layer PCB, with quality components, Teapo caps, a huge 5" x 5" heatsink across the top, 130MM fan, 80-85% efficient with 84% efficiency typical and APFC from a "trusted" OEM, almost no ripple.... I surprised myself when I didn't put it in tier 1. :cool:

Madmat has one and, not to pressure the poor guy, maybe he could write up a review of it. At least maybe he could chime in with his experience.

[madmat]

I wasn't sure about the NDA so I was being vague...So far it's looking fantastic. There's just a .18V drop on 12V1 going from a 96W to 580W load, 12V2 is a bit more drastic at .20V (:eek: ) while 5V drops just .09V and the 3.3V rail sags a mere .13V.

Baseline voltages are 3.33V @ 3.33, 5.0V @ 4.98V 12V1 @ 12.33V and 12V2 @ 12.32V. Those are the voltages @ 96W load so you can extrapolate from there.

That's going from respective loads of 2.00A on both 12V rails, 5.00A on the 5V rail and 2.0A on the 3.3V rail to 18A on both 12V rails 17A on the 5V rail and 14A on the 3.3V rail.

I'm impressed as you can imagine. As soon as I get a camera to work with (the one I was using met with a very unfotunate fate) I will have a full review up. :D

[jonnyGURU]

I didn't sign an NDA. Did you sign an NDA? I didn't sign an NDA. :D

The .2V drop on 12V2 surprises me. I didn't see that much of a drop. Then again, you're also getting different voltages off the ATX and 8-pin connectors when you really shouldn't see more than a .01V difference between the two. So there must be some resistance there somewhere (crooked pin, etc.)

[madmat]

I need to dig out my trusty DMM and take my measurements from the PSU, this'll take any losses from resistance out of the equation.

[jonnyGURU]

There's contacts for DMM probing on the front panel of the load tester too. ;)

[madmat]

Yeah but I'm wanting to take the actual physical interface between the load tester and the PSU out of the picture. This'll tell me where the fault lies and I can adjust the load on the tester to where it's actually pulling the same wattage on both rails.

Yeah, I'm a bit anal.

[jonnyGURU]

Changed Thermaltake from 3 year warranty to 5 per TT Tech (blame him if it's wrong.)

[dBTelos]

Taking another look, how did Etasis get put above Seasonic? Are they that much better?

[jonnyGURU]

Taking another look, how did Etasis get put above Seasonic? Are they that much better?

In the way they're built, the quality of components, et al? Yes.

You have to realize that a "server grade" PSU is actually a "grade" of PSU that's built to a higher standard than your typical workstation unit.

[Shift]

I never saw this sticky. Gonna put this in my sig so that all the nubs don't keep askign the same questions:lol:(including me:D )

[Mantralord]

Jonny, in which tier would you place the OCZ Powerstream 520? I imagine that, being one of Topower's better models, it would be a middle-low Tier 2, while most Topower on Tier 3.

[jonnyGURU]

Jonny, in which tier would you place the OCZ Powerstream 520? I imagine that, being one of Topower's better models, it would be a middle-low Tier 2, while most Topower on Tier 3.

You'll note that there are no Topowers... even on Tier 3. ;)

Ok.... to be fair I should probably at least put a couple of the better Topowers on Tier 3 this weekend, and that includes the Powerstream 520W. But do realize, compared to the other PSU's on the list, even the Powerstream 520W does not have the power on the 12V rail, the efficiency, the voltage regulation and construction of most of the PSU's on the list.

It was a VERY GOOD power supply for it's time, but there's a reason OCZ dosn't use Topower anymore.

[Super Nade]

Jon, somehow, the Tagan branded Topowers seem to out do the others. Does this have something to do with European v/s US (UL) standards. I've noticed that the European standards are more elaborate and rigid. Last night, I was glancing through the UL and EU transient supression standards and boy, do they lay emphasis on the X/Y caps or what!

[jonnyGURU]

Not so sure about that. I did an Easycon 530W review and that one didn't do too well either.

http://www.jonnyguru.com/review_details.php?id=18

[Super Nade]

"Didn't do too well" :)

Garbage unit would be more appropriate. Is there a coincidence between crap units and this bogus rail combination scheme? Just a thought.

[MC FLMJIG]

great list... Thanks again Jonny

[uOpt]

I wonder whether any 120mm PSU will ever make tier one.

Sitting on the fence, fence, fence.

[UCLAJD]

Curious as to why the Seasonic M-12 rated second tier, as you gave it a 9.5 in performance. :confused: Seems looks and value killed it. But some of the top tier are >$500!

But as far as a PSU that will run SLI/CF without a ripple, assuming you don't care about looks and you have $200, it seems first tier?

[jonnyGURU]

Nope.

Seasonic is still not of the build quality of Zippy, Etasis, PCP&C's Turbo-Cool line, etc.

Sure, it got a 9.5 in performance because it put out 700W with good efficiency, low ripple and excellent voltage regulation... but how long would one last under extreme conditions?

[UCLAJD]

OK, so a component issue. Also I see no 8800 SLI cert. Gotta have that, although I will be going ATI for the distro processing. I can only imagine what the next-gen ATI cards will demand for CF. :eek:

Nope.

Seasonic is still not of the build quality of Zippy, Etasis, PCP&C's Turbo-Cool line, etc.

Sure, it got a 9.5 in performance because it put out 700W with good efficiency, low ripple and excellent voltage regulation... but how long would one last under extreme conditions?

[Stoffa]

Nope.

Seasonic is still not of the build quality of Zippy, Etasis, PCP&C's Turbo-Cool line, etc.

Sure, it got a 9.5 in performance because it put out 700W with good efficiency, low ripple and excellent voltage regulation... but how long would one last under extreme conditions?

I got a question concerning your list Jonny. I find it a bit odd that a psu that gets a 9 (Tt Toughpower 750 watt) is hanging on the bottom of tier 3 (even below a psu that gets rated only a 7,5 (Antec Trio).
Basically you say "don't just look at the grades, also look at the buildquality so you will know what the psu will do over the years" right?
I agree with this but shouldn't buildquality also be reflected in the reviews then?

For me it went like this: I read pretty much all of your reviews on the site. I noticed the extremely high score for "performance" the Tt psu had. Since it didn't look so good the grade ended up being "only" a 9. Since I don't care about looks I considered this psu to be great and bought it. Now I see that even the Antec that gets just a 7,5 would actually be prefered over this psu cause of build quality? Then the Tt must be extremely badly build cause performance-wise it appears to be way better.
From the review section I couldn't make out the Corsair was of quite better quality compared to the Tt (tier 2 vs tier 3) either, otherwise I would've coughed up the extra 15 euros and went for that instead. But since both of em got a 9, the Tt had a higher wattage AND was cheaper it was the obvious way to go...

Moral: I think the grades should reflect position in the "tier-list" and build quality should be reflected in the review grade as well. Any thoughts on this?

PS:
Don't regard this as a flame/troll/whatever btw, I think your site is the best psu-site I know...just giving some feedback

[madmat]

I got a question concerning your list Jonny. I find it a bit odd that a psu that gets a 9 (Tt Toughpower 750 watt) is hanging on the bottom of tier 3 (even below a psu that gets rated only a 7,5 (Antec Trio).
Basically you say "don't just look at the grades, also look at the buildquality so you will know what the psu will do over the years" right?
I agree with this but shouldn't buildquality also be reflected in the reviews then?

For me it went like this: I read pretty much all of your reviews on the site. I noticed the extremely high score for "performance" the Tt psu had. Since it didn't look so good the grade ended up being "only" a 9. Since I don't care about looks I considered this psu to be great and bought it. Now I see that even the Antec that gets just a 7,5 would actually be prefered over this psu cause of build quality? Then the Tt must be extremely badly build cause performance-wise it appears to be way better.
From the review section I couldn't make out the Corsair was of quite better quality compared to the Tt (tier 2 vs tier 3) either, otherwise I would've coughed up the extra 15 euros and went for that instead. But since both of em got a 9, the Tt had a higher wattage AND was cheaper it was the obvious way to go...

Moral: I think the grades should reflect position in the "tier-list" and build quality should be reflected in the review grade as well. Any thoughts on this?

PS:
Don't regard this as a flame/troll/whatever btw, I think your site is the best psu-site I know...just giving some feedback

The Tt was added to the list after the Antec, I don't think it's position in the list has anything more or less to do with anything than that.

[Stoffa]

The Tt was added to the list after the Antec, I don't think it's position in the list has anything more or less to do with anything than that.

Right but what do you think of the rest of my little story? Don't you think build quality (and thus most likely lifespan) should be reflected in the review grade? To me the way it is now doesn't make perfect sense cause two psu's that both receive a 9 are in different tiers.

[madmat]

CWT has a bad rep for durability due to their use of certain caps. The toughpowers don't use them but it still hurts CWT even though IMHO the Toughpower 750 I had was built every bit as well as the Enhance built Silverstones I have.

On the flipside, I've got an Antec CWT (True Blue 480W) that's 4 years old now and was used 24/7 for 3 of those with nary a hiccup.

[jonnyGURU]

I got a question concerning your list Jonny. I find it a bit odd that a psu that gets a 9 (Tt Toughpower 750 watt) is hanging on the bottom of tier 3 (even below a psu that gets rated only a 7,5 (Antec Trio).

Umm... the PSU's in each tier are in no particular order. They are either in one tier or another. Beyond this, there is no order of preference.

As for judging build quality, etc. There's no telling the longevity of a product. If you LOOK at an Enermax Liberty, it LOOKS good quality. And I've tested them and they tested well. But (not to single out Enermax) I've seen a number of complaints of them suddenly dying. Can I account for that? No. Could I have forseen these problems? Not unless they happened to me personally.

Same with the buzzing noise some people hear in some of the CWT built Thermaltakes. Did I have a problem with buzzing? No. So what's the isolated incident? The buzzing some people are experiencing or my lack of buzzing?

[galapogos]

Just checking, any ETA on a different but similar list for mid-range/lower end systems? :)

[jonnyGURU]

I'm not going to have the time to dedicate to that for another month.

[ianm2]

hummm I can't prove it, but its not beyond reasonable doubt to attribute my dfi mobos failure to my enermax 600w noisetaker psu.

This isn't a budget psu by any standard, yet I am quite aghast at how, I won't say poor, but its barely better built than a budget one, and retails around $180ish.
I know the oczz powerstream I had is ranked on around the same level, but that was so much more substantial by a totally different order than this, unless I am forgetting something. It just felt right. The enermax doesn't.

I know plenty about capacitors, I used to build my own hifi in the past, even in those fairly expensive psu pics, some of the caps are the cheapest nastiest ones available. Again I would expect more.

Jonny, can you judge a psu by the warrantee and MTBF? ( well I suppose you can to a certain extent)

Then again, at what conditions are these specified half load, full load, idle? Its a real can of worms this psu thing, I really didn't know there was that much to it.

[Spectre]

Jonny, can you judge a psu by the warrantee and MTBF? ( well I suppose you can to a certain extent)


No.

And just because it is so true i provide this parable:

Tommy: Let's think about this for a sec, Ted, why would somebody put a guarantee on a box? Hmmm, very interesting.
Ted Nelson, Customer: Go on, I'm listening.
Tommy: Here's the way I see it, Ted. guy puts a fancy guarantee on a box 'cause he wants you to fell all warm and toasty inside.
Ted Nelson, Customer: Yeah, makes a man feel good.
Tommy: 'Course it does. Why shouldn't it? Ya figure you put that little box under your pillow at night, the Guarantee Fairy might come by and leave a quarter, am I right, Ted?
Ted Nelson, Customer: What's your point?
Tommy: The point is, how do you know the fairy isn't a crazy glue sniffer? "Building model airplanes" says the little fairy, well, we're not buying it. He sneaks into your house once, that's all it takes. The next thing you know, there's money missing off the dresser and your daughter's knocked up, I seen it a hundred times.
Ted Nelson, Customer: But why do they put a guarantee on the box?
Tommy: Because they know all they solda ya was a guaranteed piece of shit. That's all it is, isn't it? Hey, if you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it guaranteed, I will. I got spare time. But for now, for your customer's sake, for your daughter's sake, ya might wanna think about buying a quality product from me.
Ted Nelson, Customer: [pause] Okay, I'll buy from you.

[ianm2]

yeah but they still have to replace/repair if it goes tits up a day b4 the warrantee expiry praps 4 1/2 years down the line.

[dqniel]

Is the Zalman going to be added into the Tier 2 section perhaps?

[jonnyGURU]

Hmm... It's certainly better performance than other FSP's (GameXstream, Sharkloon, etc.) but it's still not the build quality I'd see as a tier 3.

Maybe tier 2.5. Not sure. Let me think about it.

[galapogos]

So are there reviews of all of these recommended units? I tried searching for the Seventeam SSE/EPS v2.91 series review but I didn't come up with anything.

[Chilly]

So are there reviews of all of these recommended units? I tried searching for the Seventeam SSE/EPS v2.91 series review but I didn't come up with anything.

Seventeam is mostly a server and oem brand, not surprising that your not finding any reviews on them, BUT look for reviews of the 1Kw olympis PSU by SilverStone (http://www.silverstonetek.com/products-op1000.htm) because its a rebranded Seventeam PSU, and your basicly looking at general review of a seventeam psu.

Seventeam is a very high end PSU, most of them orginally designed for the server market. I would have no worries buying a PSU from them.

[galapogos]

Seventeam is mostly a server and oem brand, not surprising that your not finding any reviews on them, BUT look for reviews of the 1Kw olympis PSU by SilverStone (http://www.silverstonetek.com/products-op1000.htm) because its a rebranded Seventeam PSU, and your basicly looking at general review of a seventeam psu.

Seventeam is a very high end PSU, most of them orginally designed for the server market. I would have no worries buying a PSU from them.

Well not all of them are good. hardwaresecrets reviewed a BKV that was using an ancient AT design.

[DaDuck]

Hate to ask yet another PSU question on here, but wasn't sure to make my own thread.

Simply stated, where would you rate a seventeam built Masscool sytrin 460? Would it show in tier 2 along with the other seventeams or in a category all its own somewhere lower?

btw, Jonny, you gave it a thumbs up, and from what I can tell, rightfully so. Just asking out of curiosity and ignorance more than anything.

[jonnyGURU]

Hate to ask yet another PSU question on here, but wasn't sure to make my own thread.

Simply stated, where would you rate a seventeam built Masscool sytrin 460? Would it show in tier 2 along with the other seventeams or in a category all its own somewhere lower?

btw, Jonny, you gave it a thumbs up, and from what I can tell, rightfully so. Just asking out of curiosity and ignorance more than anything.

I rate SevenTeam SSI EPS 12V 2.91 Series and "Fanless" product lines as tier 2. The ST the Masscool/Sytrin is based on is neither of these.

But it is a decent unit for the money if 460W is all you need.

[galapogos]

I guess he was asking which Tier the Masscool/Sytrin would fall in. I'd be interested to know too since I got my friend that model based on your review.

Also, do you have any reviews of the Tier 2 Seventeam SSE EPS 12V 2.91 Series and "Fanless" product lines?

[DaDuck]

Not quite what I was looking for. To be honest, I thought seventeam was seventeam, so I assumed it was up there. But then I realized if that were the case, the price would reflect it, so it was really a silly ? on my part lol.

Edit: although that would be good information, I saw that Jonny's planning on making up different lists, so I have no issue waiting until that happens.

[jonnyGURU]

I guess he was asking which Tier the Masscool/Sytrin would fall in. I'd be interested to know too since I got my friend that model based on your review.

It doesn't fall into this list at all. I suppose you could say "tier 4."

Also, do you have any reviews of the Tier 2 Seventeam SSE EPS 12V 2.91 Series and "Fanless" product lines?

I reviewed the 500W "Fanless" model and the Silverstone Olympia OP1000. Another unit based on this would be the MGE XG Duro 900W aka the Ultra X-Pro 750W.

Not quite what I was looking for. To be honest, I thought seventeam was seventeam, so I assumed it was up there.

That's the big problem I have with ALL of the lists out there. A brand is not a brand. Most brands make a full product line to satisfy several different market groups. One can not say "this BRAND is great" or "this BRAND sucks" unless ALL of the products from the particular brand is "great" or "sucks."

[Bipidri]

i wanted to thank all the Guru team for helping me choose my PSU, I got my Corsair HX620 two days ago, and while I still wait for my other computer parts to arrive, i gave it a spin, and I was most impressed how silent it is.
the only way I hear the fan is way I get so close I'm scared my hair will be sucked in :D
Thanks to all of you! :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: my round! ^^

[galapogos]

It doesn't fall into this list at all. I suppose you could say "tier 4."
I guess if you had made a "mid-range" or "entry-level" guide, it would fall into a better tier? Admittedly 460W seems pretty paltry for a "high end gaming PC" :)



I reviewed the 500W "Fanless" model and the Silverstone Olympia OP1000. Another unit based on this would be the MGE XG Duro 900W aka the Ultra X-Pro 750W.
Thanks, will take a look.

That's the big problem I have with ALL of the lists out there. A brand is not a brand. Most brands make a full product line to satisfy several different market groups. One can not say "this BRAND is great" or "this BRAND sucks" unless ALL of the products from the particular brand is "great" or "sucks."

Amen to that.

[tomcat]

A few questions:

I've got a antec neo550w psu and am very happy with it but I 'm now planning to buy a second graphics card so will need a more powerfull psu.

When looking at the list I found my prefered psu in trier 2 -> enermax galaxy, the other psu I was looking at I didn't see anywhere in jonny's review -> cooler master realpower 850w which is also NVIDIA Quad SLI certified.
Is this last one also a good psu or should I go for the 140€ more expensive enermax galaxy 1000w. If the galaxy would sell for 190€ I wouldn't hessitate but spending over 300€ on a psu makes me think twice espesially when I need the extra cach for my second gpu!

Thx for the input ;)

[jonnyGURU]

I believe those Cooler Masters are the same OEM as the Xclio Stable Power (CWT?) which is in Tier 2.

I'll research that and add them to the list.

Don't forget that the Galaxy also comes in an 850W model for less money too. ;)

[tomcat]

Don't forget that the Galaxy also comes in an 850W model for less money too. ;)


I know but that still makes it 70€ more expensive...

So price/quality wise the coolermaster (xclio) sounds realy good to me, 850W for 190€, so I guess that would qualify for a thumbs up?!

[jonnyGURU]

Check that. I had said the Xclio Stablepower were Enhance. It's the new Toughpower's that are CWT based.

Like I said, I need to research it before I add it to the list. If I find that it's the same OEM, component choice and build quality of something that is already on the list, then I will add it to the list at the same tier.

[kuhla]

Just curious why the OP650 didn't make tier 1.

[jonnyGURU]

Not enough data, I guess. I'm still not quite sure it's of the build quality of a Turbo-Cool or Zippy.

[Super Nade]

As far as I understand Jon's ranking the following goes:

Just because a unit scores 9.999 on a review it does not guarentee long term reliability (say 5-7 yrs down the road). That can only be garnered via actual long term usage test data. Have you ever heard of Zippy's or TC's blowing up over the years? Probably not. Hence they sit in T-1. The review is an extremely useful indicator about the unit's quality, but it does not guarentee the future.

Ofcourse, this is my personal understanding of the whole process. :)

[GalvanizedYankee]

Have you ever heard of Zippy's or TC's blowing up over the years?

YES! In the last year over at AnandTech, two 510 TCs have been posted that went into melt-down. :D
PCP&C down rated the fans on the early models because of noise complaints, the units are a very tight package, the Teapos protested. No other hardware was killed in the melt-downs. :)

Zippy/Emacs run 15 years no matter what! Yay Zippy! :cool: :p

[jonnyGURU]

Umm... Ok... back on topic... :D

If a PSU is built using a bunch of OST's, even with a Hitachi on the primary, it's not going to make tier 1. If the power supply isn't independently regulated, it's not going to make tier 1.

Do Turbo-Cool's die? Sure. But there's more of them out there and the users are more vocal. I'd be more vocal too if I spent $500 for a PSU and it blew up on me. :) I don't hold that against them. The only thing I hold against PCP&C is Doug's big mouth. :D

[Oklahoma Wolf]

Zippy/Emacs run 15 years no matter what! Yay Zippy! :cool: :p

Except for the one batch of about 50 dead Zippys I saw reported once, where they ran into a batch of bad fans... unfortunately, no company's immune :(

[ianm2]

Jonny, when you have a bit of spare time, could you actually give your criteria for what makes one qualify for a particular tier please, just for the icing on the cake?

[Kab]

As far as I understand Jon's ranking the following goes:

Just because a unit scores 9.999 on a review it does not guarentee long term reliability (say 5-7 yrs down the road). That can only be garnered via actual long term usage test data. Have you ever heard of Zippy's or TC's blowing up over the years? Probably not. Hence they sit in T-1. The review is an extremely useful indicator about the unit's quality, but it does not guarentee the future. I agree with you, Sir! :D

There's two sides to the equation. After all the MAIN test is experience running it long term and that has no substitute. What Jon/Matt and any reviewer who can review adequately does is help us decide from zilch, based on many facts and then simulated testing what is the most likely result for any individual planning to run the PSU from low-high loads. Its is as much needed as the result of those who run it for years. :) On the other hand they also point out the flaws, misinformation, useful indicators, components, share/explain the knowledge and spread it, shed light on the nitty gritty coverups and the lies 'n' deceptions away from the mfgs gibberish and market dance.

On a contrary notes, I have a Zippy that blew out last year. Overheating after 14 months use. There's always the few in any model but overall they are class and quality, rather than judging off random samples.

[JEDIYoda]

Umm... Ok... back on topic... :D

If a PSU is built using a bunch of OST's, even with a Hitachi on the primary, it's not going to make tier 1. If the power supply isn't independently regulated, it's not going to make tier 1.

Do Turbo-Cool's die? Sure. But there's more of them out there and the users are more vocal. I'd be more vocal too if I spent $500 for a PSU and it blew up on me. :) I don't hold that against them. The only thing I hold against PCP&C is Doug's big mouth. :D

Exactly!!

[Super Nade]

Jeez..I'm beginning to sound like a Zippy fanboy.....:(

[Showtime]

Jonny,

I have a question about the tier 2 X-Finity 600W. I was shocked to see ultras ranked so high, but your reasoning seems sound. It's not the name, it's who designs and manufactures the ps and what parts they use.
I followed your link to the manufacturers page and then went to few sites to get pricing and it was consistently under $80(US). Most tier 3 500W cost that or more. Does that make it the best bang for the buck ps on the list? What should I be aware of before ordering it? Is it louder than the others or anything like that?

I need to replace an antec TC 550 because it's a little too noisy for my multimedia box. I mostly want it too be stable and have at least 500 watt and enough amps for a single 7900GS, 1 optical, 1 - 2 hd's, 3 yate loom 120mm fans and maybe 1 80mm fan. I would like to keep it under $100 shipped, and I might put whatever new ps I get into my gaming rig and move the fairly quiet ocz520 into this box.

Any other recommendations? I missed a deal at frys for 500W antec neohe for $50 OTD and after reading through thiis thread, I realize that it may have been for the best.

Thanks for all the info.

[jonnyGURU]

Jonny,

I have a question about the tier 2 X-Finity 600W. I was shocked to see ultras ranked so high, but your reasoning seems sound. It's not the name, it's who designs and manufactures the ps and what parts they use.
I followed your link to the manufacturers page and then went to few sites to get pricing and it was consistently under $80(US). Most tier 3 500W cost that or more. Does that make it the best bang for the buck ps on the list? What should I be aware of before ordering it? Is it louder than the others or anything like that?

You're looking at the wrong part. The X-Finity 600W is OEM Wintech and is cheaper. The one in my list is OEM Andyson. It is the "EE" (Energy Efficient) model that's in tier 2 of my list.

That said... they are planning on killing off the X-Finity (including the "EE" that hasn't even landed yet) and XVS product lines. You can get the "old" X-Finity dirt cheap now because of that: http://www.provantage.com/ultra-ult31848~7ULTR05K.htm

If you want something quieter, there's the 500W: http://www.provantage.com/ultra-ult31845~7ULTR05E.htm

[CAD4466HK]

You're looking at the wrong part. The X-Finity 600W is OEM Wintech and is cheaper. The one in my list is OEM Andyson. It is the "EE" (Energy Efficient) model that's in tier 2 of my list.

That said... they are planning on killing off the X-Finity (including the "EE" that hasn't even landed yet) and XVS product lines. You can get the "old" X-Finity dirt cheap now because of that: http://www.provantage.com/ultra-ult31848~7ULTR05K.htm

If you want something quieter, there's the 500W: http://www.provantage.com/ultra-ult31845~7ULTR05E.htm

What??? Killing off the X-Pro 600 EE :(
Something new on the horizon :confused:

[jonnyGURU]

What??? Killing off the X-Pro 600 EE :(
Something new on the horizon :confused:

NO!!!!

I SAID "killing off the X-Finity......"

[CAD4466HK]

NO!!!!

I SAID "killing off the X-Finity......"

:wall: :o

Ahh, ok jG, my bad, I need to start counting sheep soon :crazy:

[Showtime]

You're looking at the wrong part. The X-Finity 600W is OEM Wintech and is cheaper. The one in my list is OEM Andyson. It is the "EE" (Energy Efficient) model that's in tier 2 of my list.

That said... they are planning on killing off the X-Finity (including the "EE" that hasn't even landed yet) and XVS product lines. You can get the "old" X-Finity dirt cheap now because of that: http://www.provantage.com/ultra-ult31848~7ULTR05K.htm

If you want something quieter, there's the 500W: http://www.provantage.com/ultra-ult31845~7ULTR05E.htm

Thanks. I think I understand. It's only the Ultra with EE & APFC that are good and the x-finity w/ ee & apfc are being killed off before landing. The links went to the manufacturers page and I thought all the power supplies on each page/list were all made the same.

Are the old X-finity's in your links Wintech or Andyson? I don't see EE or APFC in their descriptions. I am not necessarily looking for an ultra ps, just a quiet, reliable one.

If you had a < $100 to spend, what 3 power supplies would interest you?

[jonnyGURU]

Are the old X-finity's in your links Wintech or Andyson? I don't see EE or APFC in their descriptions. I am not necessarily looking for an ultra ps, just a quiet, reliable one.


If you click on my link for "X-Finity" you'll see it goes to the 800W. Yes, others are listed. But I'm referring you to the 800W.

If you want a suggestion for a "cheap" power supply, you need to be in the other sticky. ;)

[madmat]

They're killing off all the X-Finity's? Even the 800W? That's crazy.

[jonnyGURU]

Yeah.

They're keeping V-Series, but upgrading it to VS2 w/ sleeved cables.

They're killing the XVS, but changing the 600W to a single +12V rail and calling it the XVS2.

All of the high end will be either X-Pro or X3 and will be 600, 800, 1000 and 1600 (was the 2000.)

Oh... NDA guys. ;)

[madmat]

Odd, the XVS 600 I reviewed was a single rail 12V version to begin with.

[jonnyGURU]

Sorry... the X-Connect version is. The V-Series isn't. They're all going single +12V rail.

[davidhammock200]

Sorry... the X-Connect version is. The V-Series isn't. They're all going single +12V rail.Isn't everyone. ;)

[GalvanizedYankee]

I think we will see dual rail on units 350W~500W for some time to come.
Some comp providers will cling to the ignored Intel spec, for whatever reason/s.

[davidhammock200]

I think we will see dual rail on units 350W~500W for some time to come.
Some comp providers will cling to the ignored Intel spec, for whatever reason/s.Dual rails are fine as long as the everything except the CPU,
including the GPU are fully powered with less than +12V@18A. :cool:

[madmat]

Dual rails are fine as long as the everything except the CPU,
including the GPU are fully powered with less than +12V@18A. :cool:

In the case of over 90% of the PC's in existence today...of course it can be.

[davidhammock200]

In the case of over 90% of the PC's in existence today...of course it can be.Yep, almost everything except very highend gaming rigs. :beer:

[madmat]

That and high end 3D rendering rigs...

[Sanko]

correct me if i'm wrong. according to the list, i can conclude that ST56ZF > 620HX? in terms of performance i mean.

[jonnyGURU]

correct me if i'm wrong. according to the list, i can conclude that ST56ZF > 620HX? in terms of performance i mean.

In terms of build quality, potnetial longevity, better regulation... yes. But the Corsair is more feature rich with touchy feely things like modular connectors, a quieter fan and higher efficiency.

[davidhammock200]

In terms of build quality, potnetial longevity, better regulation... yes. But the Corsair is more feature rich with touchy feely things like modular connectors, a quieter fan and higher efficiency.The Corsair 620W has up to +12V@50A, I believe the Silverstone 560 is only +12V@38A. :beer:

[jonnyGURU]

The Corsair 620W has up to +12V@50A, I believe the Silverstone 560 is only +12V@38A. :beer:

Thank you Mr. Obvious. ;)

I would hope that someone would take into consideration that one unit has 38A on the +12V and that would be enough for them instead of just looking at a list, saying "well, the product is made by Etasis so it has to be good," and then buying it soley for that reason. :D

[Oklahoma Wolf]

There are other differences - the ST56ZF is a group regulated unit as opposed to indy on the Corsairs. Considering the hefty 3.3v/5v capacity of the ST56ZF, I consider it to be a modified ATX 1.3 unit :)

[Sanko]

thanks david, jonny and wolf. really appreciate it. as now the distro for corsair down here in Malaysia just confirm with me they are bringing in the psu. but only april it will arrive. i guess i have to wait. the reason i asked this question is that the ST56ZF is ready stock.

[davidhammock200]

Thank you Mr. Obvious. ;)

I would hope that someone would take into consideration that one unit has 38A on the +12V and that would be enough for them instead of just looking at a list, saying "well, the product is made by Etasis so it has to be good," and then buying it soley for that reason. :DI would put the Silverstone 560W against the Corsair 520W, the Corsair 620W just over-powers it. ;)

[Oklahoma Wolf]

I would put the Silverstone 560W against the Corsair 520W, the Corsair 620W just over-powers it. ;)

At 12v... can't touch it on 3.3v/5v ;)

[davidhammock200]

At 12v... can't touch it on 3.3v/5v ;)Yes & what highend gaming system uses that much 3.3V/5V? :lol:

[Oklahoma Wolf]

Aopen AK79G-Max with onboard nForce2 IGP FTW!!! :lol:

[Juardis]

Ok JonnyG, I've taken your advice (from a locked thread here) and registered here. I'm afraid I can't offer much to the community as I buy a new PSU about once every decade (i.e., as the need warrants). Well, the need is warranted now and your site is one of many I visit to research new PSUs. Since you have seen fit to rank PSUs, much to my benefit, I have to ask you about two in particular that you put in Tier 1. They are the Etasis ET850 and the Silverstone Zeus ST85ZF. I cannot find the Etasis for sale in the US anymore. When I first started researching PSUs in late January, they were readily available. As time went on, the supply shrunk. Now? Nothing. Not a single US supplier that I can find has one for sale.

OK, np, I'll buy the Zeus. Problem I have with that is that on newegg.com, of the 13 people that bothered to review the Zeus, there are 6 dead Zeus's. Coincidence, bad luck, or potential problem with this particular build? I mean, the Etasis can't be found and almost half of the Zeus's on newegg received bad reviews, so I'm wondering what's going on? They are in your first tier but something seems amiss.

Do you, or anyone else, know anything about these two PSUs and why the are not available and/or failing?

[jonnyGURU]

Etasis: http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=Etasis

Zippy: http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=Zippy+Emacs

[Oklahoma Wolf]

OK, np, I'll buy the Zeus. Problem I have with that is that on newegg.com, of the 13 people that bothered to review the Zeus, there are 6 dead Zeus's. Coincidence, bad luck, or potential problem with this particular build?

I answered this one over at [H], but I'll repeat myself anyway. I can only recall one definitive case of one of the big Zeus units actually dying since they were released. The rest of them were all false alarms. I trust Newegg reviews about as far as I can throw my car :D

[Juardis]

I answered this one over at [H], but I'll repeat myself anyway. I can only recall one definitive case of one of the big Zeus units actually dying since they were released. The rest of them were all false alarms. I trust Newegg reviews about as far as I can throw my car :D
Thanks for the reply (both here and on [H]). The thing about the reviews from newegg is that they either loved it, or it didn't work at all. There was nothing in between. No comments about wavering voltages, current spikes, underfrequency issues, nothing like that. The negative reviews were...it was DOA. How can you screw up that type of review? People don't know to plug in their PSU or something? :D

[jonnyGURU]

Unfortunately, user comments are rarely "in between." Most people don't feel the need to report on something that does what it's advertised to do.

[EsaT]

Now why Enermax Galaxy is still listed as very quiet when it definitely isn't quiet?

It started a bit too noisy and got worse as soon as power output reached just a hundred watts. By 150W, it was 35 dBA@1m, which is already well beyond unacceptable; we consider ~30dBA@1m to be the upper limit for "quiet". In contrast, all of the comparative PSUs above (audio recordings of which are above) stay at just 25 dBA@1m or less up to 200~300W output. Also, the noise character of these other PSUs is far smoother and more benign.
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article726-page5.html



Looks like CWT/Thermaltake has really good quality checks...
In Finnish MuroBBS there was today post about Toughpower 850W. First unit had lasted 15 minutes before deceasing. Next unit worked but case fans connected to Molex cable didn't start so he tried other cable and fans started working and he thought it was just some contact problem in modular cable. But checking things with multimeter told that 5 and 12V were "cross connected" in non-working cable... result was dead DVD-drive.

As sidenote someone's CWT made Antec had recently taken motherboard, HD and DVD-writer to grave with it during (normal for them) deceasing.


The negative reviews were...it was DOA. How can you screw up that type of review? People don't know to plug in their PSU or something? :D"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so."
-Bertrand Russell

[jonnyGURU]

Now why Enermax Galaxy is still listed as very quiet when it definitely isn't quiet?


Should I dignify that with a response? ;)

We're talking about SPCR here. :D

The Galaxy is still quiet. Quieter than some other 1kW options (PCP&C, SilverStone) and I don't think it's 35dBA at 150W. I wonder if their sample was hosed or there's something wrong with their testing.

[Kab]

If you see a Galaxy or Galaxy DXX (850/1000) running at <500W input, it isn't loud at all. Loud for a 1kW is a PC P&C Turbo-Cool 1kW-SR if you ever hear it :o

[fxgardes]

Looks like CWT/Thermaltake has really good quality checks...
In Finnish MuroBBS there was today post about Toughpower 850W. First unit had lasted 15 minutes before deceasing. Next unit worked but case fans connected to Molex cable didn't start so he tried other cable and fans started working and he thought it was just some contact problem in modular cable. But checking things with multimeter told that 5 and 12V were "cross connected" in non-working cable... result was dead DVD-drive.

As sidenote someone's CWT made Antec had recently taken motherboard, HD and DVD-writer to grave with it during (normal for them) deceasing.

didn't know toughpowers were that bad . I'm still trying to figure out why the Global and US websites show different specs for the 1200w version .

US :

http://fxgardes.ifrance.com/spec2

Global :

http://fxgardes.ifrance.com/spec1

or is that the same thing said differently ?

[nicolasb]

Am I going mad :crazy: or have the Xclio models moved from tier two to tier three in the past couple of months?

Regardless of whether I'm going mad or not :) what's the matter with the Xclios that they don't make it into tier two?

[jonnyGURU]

Am I going mad :crazy: or have the Xclio models moved from tier two to tier three in the past couple of months?

Regardless of whether I'm going mad or not :) what's the matter with the Xclios that they don't make it into tier two?

They haven't moved.

They're simply not tier 2 material. That's why they're in tier 3.

[Spilt_milk]

so i guess my recent buy of the op1000 was a good choice for 370 canadian which is like 407 USD. can a PSU be modded to have like 2 or 3 more SATA plugs on top of what i got. If so how do i do it? Yea i'm new

[madmat]

$370 CDN is more like $50 US... so that's a really good buy. Actually it's $321.76 US.

[jonnyGURU]

so i guess my recent buy of the op1000 was a good choice for 370 canadian which is like 407 USD. can a PSU be modded to have like 2 or 3 more SATA plugs on top of what i got. If so how do i do it? Yea i'm new

Modding over to SATA is a pain. But it can be done. Just hit up Performance-PC's for a bag of crimp on SATA connectors. Cut the Molexes off and squish on the new SATA.

The adapter I like are the little molded-in-plastic Molex on one side, SATA on the other. I don't care much for those long Molex to SATA pig tails.

[theseeker]

I just sold my dually and my Pc P&C 1Kw went along with it. My new system is quite power hungry as well and I want to make sure that check out all my options. New system:
evga 680i MB
e6600 OCed to 3.4 H20 cooled
4 Gb Corsair Dominator w/fan
2 8800GTX H20 cooled
2 150 raptors
1 75 raptor
3 500 Seagate~xfx sata raid card
2 external hdds
2 Aqua pumps
12 120mm fans
2 92 mm fans
2 Aquaero dispaly control devices
1 plextor dvd
I am currently using the PC P&C 1 Kw without issue but I am a little curious about the epower 1200 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817101022. However, I am so used to PC P&C I am a little afraid to switch. I would like a PSU that has some modular connections and increased efficiency. Any opinions?

[Chozart]

As I stated in your other thread, it might be a good idea to wait for the DA1200 from Silverstone to come into stores. Given reviews of the Olympia (OP1000 and others) and the Decathlon (DA750 and so on), it's pretty likely that the DA1200 is high quality.

It's modular, 90A on a single 12V rail, and looks nice. Promising in my opinion. Check my post in your other thread for links.

[jonnyGURU]

As I stated in your other thread, it might be a good idea to wait for the DA1200 from Silverstone to come into stores. Given reviews of the Olympia (OP1000 and others) and the Decathlon (DA750 and so on), it's pretty likely that the DA1200 is high quality.

It's modular, 90A on a single 12V rail, and looks nice. Promising in my opinion. Check my post in your other thread for links.

Not necessarily. It's yet another OEM. The OP1000 is Silverstone. The DA and OP650, 750, 850 are some factory in Taiwan and the 1200 is Enhance.

You can't really judge a PSU or PSU company by a model OEM'd by a different company.

[Oklahoma Wolf]

The OP1000 is Silverstone.

You mean Seventeam? ;)

[Chozart]

Not necessarily. It's yet another OEM. The OP1000 is Silverstone. The DA and OP650, 750, 850 are some factory in Taiwan and the 1200 is Enhance.

You can't really judge a PSU or PSU company by a model OEM'd by a different company.

Ok, my bad :o sorry

[jonnyGURU]

You mean Seventeam? ;)

Yeah.... that too. :beer:

[Spilt_milk]

Jonny
what about this 1000 watt PSU . I dont think its on the list
http://www.scythe.co.jp/power/ego.html

[Spectre]

Jonny
what about this 1000 watt PSU . I dont think its on the list
http://www.scythe.co.jp/power/ego.html

Enhance...rippletastic

[Spilt_milk]

Modding over to SATA is a pain. But it can be done. Just hit up Performance-PC's for a bag of crimp on SATA connectors. Cut the Molexes off and squish on the new SATA.

The adapter I like are the little molded-in-plastic Molex on one side, SATA on the other. I don't care much for those long Molex to SATA pig tails.

If the op1000 has6 sata and 6 molexs and i need 3 more SATA. what do i do I know change all the molexa to SATA but if i need a total of 14 SATA's what i do

like how many satas can be chained on one power wire. Can i do 8 on onw wire? and just stuff and tie up the other wires

[KBD]

Enermax Galaxy DXX 850 and 1000W, are they considered to be Tier 2 like the original Galaxy PSUs? From what i understand there is no significant difference between them, except for the fact that the DXX have the 2 8 pin PCI-E connectors, is that right?

[Spectre]

Enermax Galaxy DXX 850 and 1000W, are they considered to be Tier 2 like the original Galaxy PSUs? From what i understand there is no significant difference between them, except for the fact that the DXX have the 2 8 pin PCI-E connectors, is that right?

At least the unit I tested had better ripple/noise than previous units.

[jonnyGURU]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I still don't see them as the build quality of Turbo-Cool, Zippy and Etasis (tier 1.)

If I break the Enermax Galaxy into tier 1, there's a few others of similar build quality that would have to go with it.

[Rats]

Jonny, do you know if the XClio Stablepower 500W is the same as the Enhance ENP-5150GH? To my eye it looks the same, but I wanted to get your insight.

[jonnyGURU]

I have no idea without seeing a picture of the inside of the Xclio.

[ceewi1]

The output specs are different and there's no 80+ certification. Looks more like a rebadged 5150G.

[Rats]

Jonny, would you mind adding corresponding JonnyGuru review links to each PSU on the list (if they exist)? If you want, I can do the work and then PM you the text to copy and paste... and I'll also correct your spelling errors/typos ;)

[Logical2u]

Just a quick question to Guru...

You have the Olympia 650w, 750w, and the Decathlon 750w on your Tier 2 list...

Any opinion on the Decathlon 650w, which has no reviews to be found anywhere on the entire internet it seems?

Personally, I'd guess it to be essentially the same as the OP and DA you've already reviewed (and listed on your chart), and within the same bracket on your charts, but I thought I'd ask anyways. (Looks to be a modular OP650 or a lower wattage DA750)

[Oklahoma Wolf]

Looks to be a modular OP650

That's what it is... I imagine his opinion of it would be the same as the OP650.

[Battle_Rattle]

Just have to bring this up...

Under tier two of the first post

"Silverstone Olympia OP650, 750 and Decathalon DA650, DA750 & DA850

* Design by Impervio Electronics Co.
* Built in Taiwan
* Quit and efficient"

Ok... now that I'm officially an idiot for pointing out spelling errors I'll finish this post and return to obsessing over what power supply I want to power the sig below, 11 fans, 2 CCFL's, future water cooling setup...and that has 8-pin pci-e, nice black cables like the Ultra X3 or Corsair and is under 230$ U.S.....thanks

P.S. Forgive me for finding some humor in the possibility that you could not bring yourself to fully spell "quite" when it comes to those units

[jonnyGURU]

P.S. Forgive me for finding some humor in the possibility that you could not bring yourself to fully spell "quite" when it comes to those units

I'll forgive you if you can forgive me for pointing out that you spelled QUIET as QUITE!!! :D

[Battle_Rattle]

I'll forgive you if you can forgive me for pointing out that you spelled QUIET as QUITE!!! :D

hahahaha.... spell check is the end for all of us :D

[Battle_Rattle]

Silverstone OP 850 ... You gonna put that on the list?

Not bad at all for 219$.... I'm waiting on the non humming (650/750) Model numbers to come out...

Whence they do JG, will the changes they made effect anything substantial?

Thats right.... "Whence" :beer: :D

P.S.... on the web site DA/OP 650 and 750 listed as "made in Taiwan"... but 850's not identified in this way... oversight?

[Super Nade]

Jon, is the X-Finity built by Andyson? I thought it was Wintec?

[jonnyGURU]

The list says "X-Finity and X-Pro 800W." Meaning, only the 800W, because only the 800W is made by Andyson. The others are made by Wintech and do not have APFC, independent voltage regulation, etc.

TigerDirect has a "one off" X-Finitiy 600W with black FlexForce cables and a 135MM fan that is made by Andyson, but there's only about 1000 units floating around so I wouldn't bother putting it on a list.

[Super Nade]

You mean this one?
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2700095&CatId=106

For $80.00 that is a heck of a deal! Why is it 12M warranty instead of lifetime?

[galapogos]

How's the new Enhance built Coolermaster Realpower 1000w? It looks good enough to make the list.

[jonnyGURU]

You mean this one?
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2700095&CatId=106

For $80.00 that is a heck of a deal! Why is it 12M warranty instead of lifetime?

Third paragraph says it's Lifetime Warranty.

[Bun-Bun]

Just noticed this....

Enermax Liberty 620W
Excellent voltage regulation
Modular
Very quiet
Crossfire X1900/X1950 Crossfire certified
Only 1 year warranty
Bumped down to tier 3 due to a number of reports of failure in the line of duty

Yet it is now tier 4...

anyway when did another tier get introduced... now I only have a tier 3 PSU instead of tier 2... :P j/j

[jonnyGURU]

Haha... sorry. Yes. Another tier was put in to split up tier 2.

[Bun-Bun]

Haha... sorry. Yes. Another tier was put in to split up tier 2.

I never thought I woudl see the day that I would be buying TT to get a better product.... but thats what I have to do now to get a tier 2 PSU again lol

[galapogos]

Damn, NONE of the Seasonics made it even to Tier 2?

[Bun-Bun]

Damn, NONE of the Seasonics made it even to Tier 2?

Thats what I thought...TT is better then my Seasonic... huh? lol The TT won't fit in my case though...

[Rats]

It seems like the only reason SeaSonics aren't in Tier 2 is because they don't make anything higher than 700W. IMO, Tier 1, 2 and 3 are all the same.

[jonnyGURU]

It seems like the only reason SeaSonics aren't in Tier 2 is because they don't make anything higher than 700W. IMO, Tier 1, 2 and 3 are all the same.

No. Not at all.

Seasonics are quiet and efficient, but IMHO they are simply NOT the build quality of others out there.

The Thermaltakes that are in Tier 2 are not in Tier 2 because they're higher wattage. They are a different platform, different level of quality and performance, than the other Toughpower's.

Yes, they're higher wattage, but if you can go from a light to full load (like 100W to 1000W) and only see a 2% drop in voltage, that's sure as hell better than ANY power supply that's putting out half as much power with the same regulation (say, 100W to 500W with the same 2% drop in voltage.) There IS a difference.

[Bun-Bun]

No. Not at all.

Seasonics are quiet and efficient, but IMHO they are simply NOT the build quality of others out there.

The Thermaltakes that are in Tier 2 are not in Tier 2 because they're higher wattage. They are a different platform, different level of quality and performance, than the other Toughpower's.

Yes, they're higher wattage, but if you can go from a light to full load (like 100W to 1000W) and only see a 2% drop in voltage, that's sure as hell better than ANY power supply that's putting out half as much power with the same regulation (say, 100W to 500W with the same 2% drop in voltage.) There IS a difference.

So its not to say that in its class the Seasonic is a worse power supply (or that it is crappy to say the least) but that the TT is the same performance in a higher class?

So for the class of the 500-700watt area the Seasonic and TT would be equal but beyond that the TT pulls ahead? Or am I missing something?

EDIT: Look back on jonny's reviews the M12-700 and the TP-1200 have comparable votlage regulation with the TP coming ahead in efficiency and the M12 in ripple. So looking at the performance the TT looks better because it does it going from 100-1200 where the Seasonic only does it from 100-700. Is this the sole basis on the Tier 2 - 3 ranking or is also on types of caps used etc.

Im not ragging... just trying to understand is all :D Seasonic is still the perfect PSU for me cause nothing else = or better fits in my case...

[Spectre]

It seems like the only reason SeaSonics aren't in Tier 2 is because they don't make anything higher than 700W. IMO, Tier 1, 2 and 3 are all the same.

Seasonic does have models/designs higher than 700w they are just limited currently.

[jonnyGURU]

So its not to say that in its class the Seasonic is a worse power supply (or that it is crappy to say the least) but that the TT is the same performance in a higher class?

So for the class of the 500-700watt area the Seasonic and TT would be equal but beyond that the TT pulls ahead? Or am I missing something?

Please just read the paragraphs after the tiers. NONE of the tiers are a reflection of inadequate or even mediocre product. Why bother categorizing product I would never even use my self? Want a "tier 5?" Ok... "Other." There's your tier 5.

[Bun-Bun]

Please just read the paragraphs after the tiers. NONE of the tiers are a reflection of inadequate or even mediocre product. Why bother categorizing product I would never even use my self? Want a "tier 5?" Ok... "Other." There's your tier 5.

Whoa I think you missed the last part of my post as those paragraphs dont apply to me. I am not saying that your saying Seasonic is crap. I know you only put on here what you would use yourself and I don't feel bad for having a Seasonic. As I said (and as you even said in your review) the M12-700 is my perfect 10.

I just want to know what what makes the TT a higher tier then the Seasonic. Because looking at performance they both have good voltage regulation and the TT beats the Seasonic in efficiency but the Seasonic beats the TT in Ripple. So what makes/breaks the tier2/3 gap?

I am just curious...

don't hurt me...

[jonnyGURU]

Again, the quality of components used, the switching design, etc.

Also, like I said, regulation is relative. A PSU that's "only" 700W that has 2% regulation, but a PSU that can put out almost twice that that still has 2% regulation is going to be almost twice as good as far as regulation is concerned.

I'm going to use two fictional PSU's to make this point.

The Spectre 600W vs. the Wolf 1200W.

The Spectre 600W dropped from +12.12V to +11.88V going from no to full load. That's 2% regulation.

The Wolf 1200W dropped from +12.12V to +11.88V going from no to full load which is also 2% regulation. But the Wolf can do 90A on the +12V and the Spectre can do only 45A. So the Wolf is literally twice as good as the Spectre in terms of voltage regulation.

The Guru 1200W is kind of a crappy 1200W. It drops from +12.12V to +11.88V going from no load to 50% load, so it's just as good as the Spectre in that respect, but it drops from +11.88V to +11.64V. That's 4% regulation. The only thing that really makes it better than the Spectre is the fact that it does actually put out 1200W and it has more connectors, etc.

[Bun-Bun]

Again, the quality of components used, the switching design, etc.

Also, like I said, regulation is relative. A PSU that's "only" 700W that has 2% regulation, but a PSU that can put out almost twice that that still has 2% regulation is going to be almost twice as good as far as regulation is concerned.

I'm going to use two fictional PSU's to make this point.

The Spectre 600W vs. the Wolf 1200W.

The Spectre 600W dropped from +12.12V to +11.88V going from no to full load. That's 2% regulation.

The Wolf 1200W dropped from +12.12V to +11.88V going from no to full load which is also 2% regulation. But the Wolf can do 90A on the +12V and the Spectre can do only 45A. So the Wolf is literally twice as good as the Spectre in terms of voltage regulation.

The Guru 1200W is kind of a crappy 1200W. It drops from +12.12V to +11.88V going from no load to 50% load, so it's just as good as the Spectre in that respect, but it drops from +11.88V to +11.64V. That's 4% regulation. The only thing that really makes it better than the Spectre is the fact that it does actually put out 1200W and it has more connectors, etc.

Ok, that is what I was saying just said better :D thanks! Nice choice of names ;) wonder if this shows some hidden comparison between Spectre and OKW lol j/j

So previous post was 1/2 correct in that TT is higher tier because it is more wattage... not just the higher wattage but the fact its higher wattage with just as good voltage regulation (making it actually better voltage regulation) which requires better components. But thats not to say a Seasonic made to be 1200watt would not be of the same quality but in comparing these two models this is how it stands.

Ok, I get it :D

[jonnyGURU]

So previous post was 1/2 correct in that TT is higher tier because it is more wattage... not just the higher wattage but the fact its higher wattage with just as good voltage regulation (making it actually better voltage regulation) which requires better components. But thats not to say a Seasonic made to be 1200watt would not be of the same quality but in comparing these two models this is how it stands.

Ok, I get it :D

Well... Seasonic has a standard to hold themselves up to. It's not as if Seasonic doesn't want to make a 1200W or that Seasonic can't make a 1200W. It's that they may not be able to mass product a 1200W that meats their own criteria.

What happens if you take two 600W PSU's and slam them together to make a 1200W? You double your voltage regulation and your efficiency is going to be reduced considerably. If it's only good as a 600W is at 600W, why bother? You HAVE TO better yourself to put out a higher wattage product. If you can't do that, you put out a crappy product.

Take the Enhance built Strider units for example. The ST60F was good for a 600W. The ST75F was just as good as the ST60F at 600W, but we're paying for a 750W. We EXPECT better. We expect better performance at lower wattage than we would with a 600W running full tilt. The same is true with an 850W. Who cares if it's a good 600W or even 750W? We paid for an 850W. The same is true with taking an 850W, water cooling it and running it at 1200W. It might be a good 850W. It might be a GREAT 850W, but if it's not a great 1200W, you're going to get called on it.

[Bun-Bun]

Well... Seasonic has a standard to hold themselves up to. It's not as if Seasonic doesn't want to make a 1200W or that Seasonic can't make a 1200W. It's that they may not be able to mass product a 1200W that meats their own criteria.

What happens if you take two 600W PSU's and slam them together to make a 1200W? You double your voltage regulation and your efficiency is going to be reduced considerably. If it's only good as a 600W is at 600W, why bother? You HAVE TO better yourself to put out a higher wattage product. If you can't do that, you put out a crappy product.

Take the Enhance built Strider units for example. The ST60F was good for a 600W. The ST75F was just as good as the ST60F at 600W, but we're paying for a 750W. We EXPECT better. We expect better performance at lower wattage than we would with a 600W running full tilt. The same is true with an 850W. Who cares if it's a good 600W or even 750W? We paid for an 850W. The same is true with taking an 850W, water cooling it and running it at 1200W. It might be a good 850W. It might be a GREAT 850W, but if it's not a great 1200W, you're going to get called on it.

Yeah, and then it comes down to what do you need and whats good in that class of need/budget. Like for me a 1200watt PSU seems silly and wouldn't fit in my case but the Seasonic is a good 700watt that fits in my case. So to me the Seasonic is a pefect 10 because I don't need the extra 500 watts.

Almost seems you need to sort them by power and tiers instead of just tiers but that would be a lot of work... But then you could compare similar wattage PSU's. Would be clearer as to what is ok, good, and great and each class. But then again maybe that would just make things even more confusing to some and raise even more questions...

And then what makes the Zippy 600 watt or any of the 600-850 watt tier 1 PSU's better then the >1000watt Tier 2 PSU's as they should have just as good if not better voltage regulation at those lower ratings... or are they still better? Guess it would be quality of components and things like the independant rail regulation on the Zippy.

[Oklahoma Wolf]

Guess it would be quality of components and things like the independant rail regulation on the Zippy.

Most good PSU's over 700W or so are already indy. Zippy not only chooses the best possible components, they design and test their units for conditions a normal consumer unit would never have to deal with ;)

[Bun-Bun]

Most good PSU's over 700W or so are already indy. Zippy not only chooses the best possible components, they design and test their units for conditions a normal consumer unit would never have to deal with ;)

so in other words Jonny considers a lot of crap when making this list and we should all be grateful that we don't have to think about it and can just come here :D

So between tier 2-3 its mainly the analogy that jonny used among other little things and tier 1 is the cream of the crop, like the insane regulation that Zippy uses.

My head hurts now...

Its not that Seasonic is worse then the TT 1200... it's just the 1200watt needs to improve its design that much to keep to the same spec the Seasonic does at 700watt. I can see why now you split tier 2.

[nicolasb]

I get the impression that the tier system is not purely dependent on performance, but also on "build quality". If a PSU is in tier 1 then (I think) Jonny is hinting that it is probably more reliable and generally more "rugged" than a lower-tier one. Tier 1 devices are designed to hold up under fairly exotic/extreme conditions without wilting.

You might find, for example, that if a PSU's rated performance is only at temperatures up to 40 degrees C, it won't make it into the higher tiers; while a PSU that can operate for several years at 50 degrees C without any sort of performance degradation (or that is likely to be able to, based on the choice of components used in it) would make it into tier 1 or tier 2.

So a below-tier-4 device might actually perform quite well, but only up to the point where it explodes, 6 months after you bought it. :)

[jonnyGURU]

I get the impression that the tier system is not purely dependent on performance, but also on "build quality".

I'm not sure what gave anyone the impression that build quality WASN'T a factor in the tiers.

There are A LOT of variables that go into why I put what brand in what tier. It's not just performance, not just efficiency, not just build quality... it's ALL of these factors combined. That's why there's only four tiers and they are ALL top tiers.

[Bun-Bun]

I'm not sure what gave anyone the impression that build quality WASN'T a factor in the tiers.

There are A LOT of variables that go into why I put what brand in what tier. It's not just performance, not just efficiency, not just build quality... it's ALL of these factors combined. That's why there's only four tiers and they are ALL top tiers.

I knew full well that build quality was a part of it. I was just trying to figure out what makes the dividing line between tier 2 and 3 and tier 1 and 4 make perfect sense.

And after hereing your analogy of the 1200watt vs the 600watt I can understand why you split tier 2. Its not fair to the 1200 watt PSU's to be in the same tier as the 600 watt ones because they are good 1200 watts so they are better. And then Tier 1 are the exceptionally well built and tested PSU's while tier 4 are the next best thing to tier 2-3.

[eightballrj]

Jonny,
Does the DA850 stay Tier 2 after the review? It seems like it would but I was just wondering.

[mp666]

Tier 2 is displayed in bold fonts, I guess you forgot a closing tag somewhere.

[jonnyGURU]

Weird. Looks fine to me. "Tier 2" is in bold and red, the names of the power supplies are in bold and everything else is in a regular, non-bold font.

[nicolasb]

Jonny,
Does the DA850 stay Tier 2 after the review? It seems like it would but I was just wondering.I was wondering that, too. Seeing as it only gets 7.5 out of 10 for performance, and questions are raised about its voltage regulation, should it definitely still be in tier two?

[mp666]

Weird. Looks fine to me. "Tier 2" is in bold and red, the names of the power supplies are in bold and everything else is in a regular, non-bold font.

Weird, indeed. But you're right it's fine in every browser I tried except the one I use everyday to browse the forums : SeaMonkey. I tried it in Ffox, K-Meleon, IE and even in Safari in a VM, all displayed as expected. It must be an extension in Seamonkey that causes the trouble. Here seamonkey vs firefox :

http://img131.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bothbrowserlx8.jpg

Sorry for the false alarm.

[Battle_Rattle]

I was wondering that, too. Seeing as it only gets 7.5 out of 10 for performance, and questions are raised about its voltage regulation, should it definitely still be in tier two?


Wondering the same... plus why no OP850 on the list?

[sata]

I wish to know if the Ultra X3 800W also considered a Tier 2, or do you think it should?

There is no review of the X3 800W, but only of the 1000W, but one could guess their entire X3 PSU line (600W-1600W) will have the same quality as the 1000W reviewd here?

Thanks.

[jonnyGURU]

The X3 800W is already on the list under Tier 2.

Currently, the X3 800W is the exact same thing as the X3 1000W.

[ianm2]

are you also saying that hiper type m/r is better than the corsair/seasonic?

[jonnyGURU]

are you also saying that hiper type m/r is better than the corsair/seasonic?

The particular Type M and Type R models I've listed? Yes.

Is the Corsair and Seasonic still more efficient and quieter? Yes.

The particular Hiper's I've listed are based on heavy duty server models and, despite that, they're still pretty quiet considering this. With ALL THINGS weighed, and not just "some things weighed", I still think it's safe to say that OVERALL those two Hiper units are, in general, better than the Corsair and Seasonic product.

That's not to sway anyone away from the Seasonic or Corsair product.

[ianm2]

yes the hiper 730watt is actually quite cheap, significantly( $20-30) cheaper than a corsair 620 here, still I do value quietness.

the xclio 12s4p4 used to be cheap, the higher wattage ones have really shot up, but the 650watter is still a good price.

[nicolasb]

Should the Antec Truepower Quattro PSUs (850W and 1000W) have a separate entry in the list at the top of this thread? Or do we count them as being the same as Trio, NeoHE and EarthWatts?

[jonnyGURU]

I should break them up. I'll do that today.

[Matt]

Jonny,

How's the new Enhance built Coolermaster Realpower 1000w? It looks good enough to make the list, doesn't it?

[jonnyGURU]

You're right too.

I've added both Enhance built Antec TruePower Quattro and Cooler Master Real Power Pro 1000W to tier 3.

They didn't make tier 2 because the Antec has poor regulation at low loads and the Cooler Master didn't quite hold up at full load. That and the over all quality of construction of an Enhance isn't bad, but it's not "server grade."

[Stoneburner]

Could somebody help me understand the Enermax Galaxy's ranking? The actual review took away its "recommended" rating because of some ripple problem but its still very high on this list. At least the 1000watt lost its recommendation. The review of the 850 watt was not all that glowing either. So is it a tier 2 solution still?

I'm trying to find a modular 1000 watt plus power supply and my first choice would be sticking with enermax as I've used a 430 watt enermax for 6 years without problem. However, i'm open to new options.

Thanks in advance.

[dqniel]

The Ultra X3 is nice :)

[nicolasb]

Jonny, would the 850W version of the CoolerMaster RealPower Pro also be in tier 3, or is it a different underlying model from the 1000W version?

[funnyperson1]

Jonny, you have the Coolmax Green Power psus in tier 3, but the 500W and 700W models tested by OW both performed poorly. I guess the OEM is different from the higher wattage Green Powers, but you probably want to indicate that so somebody doesn't get one of these two thinking its a decent PSU.

[michaeld]

The Ultra X3 is nice :)

I've been looking at the Ultra X3 too. It's rated to put out it's stated power at 50C (good sign), has a big 130mm fan (quiet, I assume) and seems to be pretty beefy. Lifetime warranty with registration is a big bonus.

I've got an Antec TPII-550 that's developed a nice coil/choke whine and don't want to deal with RMAing for fear of getting a refurb unit.

Would be nice if Jonny had a thorough, test review of it though.

Jonny: What do you think of the Ultra X3? Anything better in the same price range?

[madmat]

I've been looking at the Ultra X3 too. It's rated to put out it's stated power at 50C (good sign), has a big 130mm fan (quiet, I assume) and seems to be pretty beefy. Lifetime warranty with registration is a big bonus.

I've got an Antec TPII-550 that's developed a nice coil/choke whine and don't want to deal with RMAing for fear of getting a refurb unit.

Would be nice if Jonny had a thorough, test review of it though.

Jonny: What do you think of the Ultra X3? Anything better in the same price range?

You mean like this (http://www.jonnyguru.com/review_details.php?id=103)?

[nicolasb]

Where would the Corsair TX750W fit in?

And how about the Seasonic X900?

[madmat]

Probably in the same tier as the Toughpower 750/850W.

[Spectre]

Where would the Corsair TX750W fit in?

And how about the Seasonic X900?

X900 is the same unit as the PC Power and Cooling Silencer 750 Quad

[madmat]

Damned ninja edits...

[Deceit]

X900 is the same unit as the PC Power and Cooling Silencer 750 Quad

So basically it's a S12 with 900w? Can it even handle that load?

[jonnyGURU]

So basically it's a S12 with 900w? Can it even handle that load?

With 230V input and 40°C ambients? probably yes. Use the Silencer 750W as a reference.

[cypherpunks]

Not all the Corsair PSUs are Seasonic any more; FSP now make more than half.

It's "Capable of outputing nearly 100% of its capability on the +12V rail"

I confess I'm a bit of a Seasonic fanboi because I like the Forward topology better than the Flyback. Do you know anyone else who uses that topology?

H'm... I just realized, Active PFC makes better use of the input capacitor. Capacitor size is basically proportional to capacitance times voltage rating. But energy storage is equal to one-half capacitance times voltage squared. So a 20% higher voltage lets you fit 20% more energy in the same sized capacitor. (Even though its capacitance is 20% lower.)

A non-PFC or passive PFC circuit just puts rectified 240V across the input capacitor, meaning 340V peak. And it varies with the supply voltage, so it's only 282V for a 100V AC input. An active PFC circuit will run more like 400V (450V being the highest standard aluminum electrolytic voltage rating), so you get more energy stored. And it's consistently high, even during low line conditions.

[jonnyGURU]

Not all the Corsair PSUs are Seasonic any more; FSP now make more than half.


Actually, it's CWT. Channel Well Technology. Not FSP.

Going from Seasonic to FSP would be a horrible mistake. :D

[cypherpunks]

I sincerely apologize for shooting from the him and letting my flaky memory confuse the TLAs. But anyway, I seem to recall that the HX and 450VX are Seasonic, and the 550VX and TX are not.

Not that they aren't all excellent, but I don't know CWT as well.

[Spectre]

Not that they aren't all excellent, but I don't know CWT as well.

CWT designs some very very good power supplies.

Do you know anyone else who uses that topology?

CWT, Sirtec, and errr...I am forgetting someone.

[Oklahoma Wolf]

FSP uses it too. Actually it's getting more and more common thanks to 80+.

[Spectre]

FSP uses it too. Actually it's getting more and more common thanks to 80+.

And AcBel Polytech.....that is who I was forgetting but yeah FSP as well.

[nicolasb]

X900 is the same unit as the PC Power and Cooling Silencer 750 QuadSo basically it's a S12 with 900w? Can it even handle that load?Neither the Silencer 750 nor the Seasonic X900 is the same unit as the Seasonic S12; they may be made by Seasonic, but they're not the same model.

[Spectre]

Neither the Silencer 750 nor the Seasonic X900 is the same unit as the Seasonic S12; they may be made by Seasonic, but they're not the same model.

Yeah I never said they were. I said the x900 and the 750 are the same :rolleyes:

[jonnyGURU]

Due to the fact that I can no longer maintain this list, I'm un-sticking it.

[Aielman]

Well that's a serious bummer. Maybe someone can pick it up and maintain it. It's too good of a resource to just float around, heh.

peace,
Aielman

[DaDuck]

Any chance of keeping them stickied without prices listed? I've used these lists quite a bit and was kinda depressed when I saw them go. Or is the fact that there's 239834093284 new supplies each month that would make the list another factor?

[jonnyGURU]

Or is the fact that there's 239834093284 new supplies each month that would make the list another factor?

Yeah... that doesn't help any. :(

[Chilly]

I haven't logged on the site for weeks, and when I finally do I find this wicked resource has been un-sticked :( most of the info is still up to date for the most part so I'm gonna bump it so others don't need to search too hard for it.

[signmeuptoo]

I too, am sad to lose this as a sticky. It is a genuine tool for me when advising others in other forums. Is there any way I could help to make it turn into a sticky again?

[meGATron77]

i'm curious why jonny didnt put corsair tx750 or gigabyte odin 800 pro series into his "PSU Recommendations for High End Gaming PC's"? :wall:imho both r excellent built by CWT...:D

[garson]

i'm curious why jonny didnt put corsair tx750 or gigabyte odin 800 pro series into his "PSU Recommendations for High End Gaming PC's"? :wall:imho both r excellent built by CWT...:D
He didn't?
Corsair product line

* Based on Seasonic or Channel Well platforms
* Very efficient
* Very quiet
* All high-temp rated Japanese caps
* HX620W is 7800 and 7900GTX SLI certified
* 5 year warranty

[jonnyGURU]

i'm curious why jonny didnt put corsair tx750 or gigabyte odin 800 pro series into his "PSU Recommendations for High End Gaming PC's"? :wall:imho both r excellent built by CWT...:D

Maybe because the list hasn't been updated in ages and why it's not a sticky anymore?

Please read the thread.

[Fuzzilla]

Jonny,

Just a quick thanks for sharing your knowledge & expertise, & a request to update the list once in a while for folks like me sweating the choice of a new PSU.

:beer::beer:

[ianm2]

STICKY PLEASE JON!!:)

[Tazz]

Jon's last post covers that ianm2.

[chief Dave]

Great list and it still works for me. Best PSU site out there. Thanks!
Dave
PS just ordered a ZM 1200M hell yea~!!!

[KBD]

Jonny, why did you kill this list? It was awesome, all it needed was a little update, i can't remember how many times i referred people to it for PSU help and had it saved in my favorites. I hope you gonna bring it up back in the form of a sticky or something, same goes for the sub-$150 high efficiency PSU list.

[D3vastator]

How about Corsair VX 550W?
Which one better choice, Corsair VX 550W or Corsair HX 520W?

[jonnyGURU]

How about Corsair VX 550W?
Which one better choice, Corsair VX 550W or Corsair HX 520W?

One is modular, the other is not.

Both are very similar performance, efficiency, noise, etc. so it comes down to whether or not modular is important to you, or lower price.

[Spectre]

How about Corsair VX 550W?
Which one better choice, Corsair VX 550W or Corsair HX 520W?

http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTQyMCwsLGhlbnRodXNpYXN0

[D3vastator]

One is modular, the other is not.

Both are very similar performance, efficiency, noise, etc. so it comes down to whether or not modular is important to you, or lower price.

http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTQyMCwsLGhlbnRodXNpYXN0

Thanks.

[ianm2]

jon, I 'm really disappointed, I spent a while searching for this, and found out you have deleted the list!!

could you please reinstate it, I hope you haven't wiped it completely, I find it a really really useful reference when comparing psu's.

in fact it was invaluable, and I am very sad to see it go, please please put it back and make a sticky out of it, I don't care that its been neglected, it was MY definitive guide, as I trust you implicitly on psu judgment, it was my bible

please please return it with a sticky.

thanks, maybe I will start a petition;)

and another hint, why not copy and paste your master list of oem's into the forum and make that a sticky too? its a bit tricky to find, and I feel all that stuff should be in one place easy to refer to at the top of the section, sorry to hassle, but its really great info

in fact I feel so strongly, I will start a petition, I hope it doesn't piss you, I have no idea how busy you are or what you have on ur plate, so forgive me if I am out of line

[Tazz]

It's time for this thread to die.
:wall: